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Old 28 Jul 2017, 09:31 (Ref:3755024)   #16
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following some of the EU stories but not in great detail...is it a full ban on all petrol and diesels or will hybrids still be allowed?

if its the latter then F1 is already ahead of the curve no?
What may be allowed will not necessarily determine what the remaining manufacturers (of road cars) deem to make.

With so many of the "premium" manufacturers putting some effort and marketing budget into Formula E and taking the perceived easier path to emission regulations that their major markets are adopting or will be adopting soon, the options for consumers in some markets may well be restricted.

As for motorsport? Will the next generation care?

What seems interesting here is that the major pollution problems related to trucks and buses do not seem to have been mentioned, so one wonders what this future virtue signalling is really all about.

Smoke, probably - but maybe a smoke screen trying to obscure something else that would be more immediately inconvenient.

I don't think one can really speculate about F1 4 years ahead let alone 20 years ahead.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 09:40 (Ref:3755026)   #17
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There was one of those in a park where I grew up in Manchester, having been rescued from Irlam Steelworks, painted in gaudy colours and parked up for us to climb all over. It mostly got used as a toilet, if I recall correctly!

Steam is a *hugely* powerful energy carrier. Superheated wet steam is used the world over in chemical and large manufacturing plants because it's relatively easy to create and tends to stay in the pipes it moves around in. If it doesn't stay in the pipes, your plant is having a very bad day.
Bring back the Stanley Steamer!

With a 100% safe fully autonomous transport system one might envisage some sort of hybrid with a steam generator powered by a time nuclear unit of some sort.

With idiot humans at the controls it would clearly be a non-starter. But with no human intervention the safety angle could be brought with statistical acceptance levels.

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Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:13 (Ref:3755032)   #18
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What seems interesting here is that the major pollution problems related to trucks and buses do not seem to have been mentioned, so one wonders what this future virtue signalling is really all about.
100% Electric powered buses are due to be introduced next year in Harrogate, and by 2020 in Leeds.

There are already 71 all electric buses running in London, and I am sure there are others elsewhere.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 10:41 (Ref:3755039)   #19
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100% Electric powered buses are due to be introduced next year in Harrogate, and by 2020 in Leeds.

There are already 71 all electric buses running in London, and I am sure there are others elsewhere.
That's not the same as committing to forcing the changes which, in terms of public transport for the roads, would not be difficult to do given, as you point out, that there is already some movement in that direction and still 20+ years to develop the technology.

And of course London had Trolley buses decades ago - dropped in favour of total ICEs around the time of the "Clean air" legislation. Quite ironc really.

I assume no connection was made at the time and that the local powerstations, seemingly providing the Trolley Bus "power" were thought to be pollution sources worse than a few additional ICE engines.

That said nothing I have found related to the trolley bus era suggests that potential pollution issues were considered during their deployment and replacement.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 15:10 (Ref:3755104)   #20
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I think the motorsport world will sharply shrink with the advent of electrical powered cars as the dominant mode of transport.

Much of motorsport is driven by that "fire in the belly" you get from the fossils.

You don't really get that from these electric cars as nice as FE might be.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 15:49 (Ref:3755115)   #21
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I can see a future after market product where by there is some sort of new generation Catalytic converter or "nasty fume catcher" type device that will become available to "clean up" more emissions from older cars.

There would no doubt be a motorsports version, or could even be something for motorsports to pioneer that would allow current - then to be historic race cars to continue running.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 16:12 (Ref:3755119)   #22
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Racing cars tend to be custom built (above club level). So if you're custom building a car you could run it on a hydrogen internal combustion engine and retain the noise and driving characteristics. Hydrogen isn't great for road cars but it could be a racing fuel solution. Packaged correctly of course.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 16:29 (Ref:3755128)   #23
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This is an interesting one and FWIW my take on it is that F1 will lose it's relevance if for no other reason that it's 'core' market will have died out - how old will many on the forum be 2040 for example? And there will be no young drivers or the interest in cars which just become transport solutions.

One report I have seen sees the phasing out of fossil fuels on sale by 2055/60 in the UK as most remaning ICE cars will be at least 15/20 years old by then (and probably punative taxes to drive them on the road),so there will be a limited market for it. It is thought that most car manufacturers will phase out ICE cars well before 2040 in the UK.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 16:38 (Ref:3755133)   #24
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This is an interesting one and FWIW my take on it is that F1 will lose it's relevance if for no other reason that it's 'core' market will have died out - how old will many on the forum be 2040 for example? And there will be no young drivers or the interest in cars which just become transport solutions.

One report I have seen sees the phasing out of fossil fuels on sale by 2055/60 in the UK as most remaning ICE cars will be at least 15/20 years old by then (and probably punative taxes to drive them on the road),so there will be a limited market for it. It is thought that most car manufacturers will phase out ICE cars well before 2040 in the UK.
There would, in effect, be no market by then except, possibly, at the lowest end.

But in any case with electric will almost certainly come autonomy and autonomy at scale would be so much more cost effective and deliverable if total.

Think how much lighter and less polluting to manufacture the travel pods could be if the autonomous aspect prevailed and there were no risks from vehicles outside the autonomous light pod system.

And then the always connected controls and ready cash flow of metered usage ....

The politicians will not have any desire to at all to defer such benefits under the guise of safety and security.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 17:09 (Ref:3755144)   #25
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Unless they can make electric cars more noisy, it's not right for F1 to make the switch
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Old 29 Jul 2017, 02:33 (Ref:3755266)   #26
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100% Electric powered buses are due to be introduced next year in Harrogate, and by 2020 in Leeds.

There are already 71 all electric buses running in London, and I am sure there are others elsewhere.
Leeds and Bradford were running trolley buses in 1911, 106 years ago, and now we get battery buses with all sorts of inefficiencies built into the system, with endless spin on how advanced they are, brilliant, just brilliant.

Governments, taxpayers money and clever sales!
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Old 29 Jul 2017, 06:51 (Ref:3755286)   #27
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Leeds and Bradford were running trolley buses in 1911, 106 years ago, and now we get battery buses with all sorts of inefficiencies built into the system, with endless spin on how advanced they are, brilliant, just brilliant.

Governments, taxpayers money and clever sales!
Longer chimneys. That's what the world needs. Make them chimneys stretch into the stratosphere.
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Old 29 Jul 2017, 12:32 (Ref:3755435)   #28
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Longer chimneys. That's what the world needs. Make them chimneys stretch into the stratosphere.
You're a genius! To terraform Mars they actually need the greenhouse effect. Why don't we just connect all chimneys to one giant inter-planetary chimney, and pipe it to Mars?
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Old 29 Jul 2017, 20:44 (Ref:3755656)   #29
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This will be up and running way after I'm in my grave. I must still have it though...because if I was the right age, I would start buying/importing and storing cheap 240v UK extension leads now...
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