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Old 29 Jul 2017, 20:38 (Ref:3755627)   #91
S griffin
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Fred though often had a car that was a step behind, especially in 2012
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Old 29 Jul 2017, 21:58 (Ref:3755665)   #92
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Fred though often had a car that was a step behind, especially in 2012
Yep. Only in 2010 and 12 did Alonso have a Ferrari remotely good enough.

Vettel has had a pretty good one in '15 and a really good one this year.

Raikkonen is no.2 there and has been since he was re-signed!

That's how Ferrari want it at the moment.

I don't think there's much point comparing him to Vettel or Alonso in that environment.
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 17:51 (Ref:3756082)   #93
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stripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridstripedcat should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
It did look a bit closer today. At least Kimi put on a bit more of a determined race. Could he have overtook him? Probably not. Still, it was good to see that Kimi still wanted to win.
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Old 30 Jul 2017, 21:25 (Ref:3756168)   #94
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S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Seb did have a problem, but Kimi still looked determined. If he had done it earlier in the season more often, he would probably be in the title fight and therefore able to pass
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 00:47 (Ref:3756215)   #95
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Yep. Only in 2010 and 12 did Alonso have a Ferrari remotely good enough.

Vettel has had a pretty good one in '15 and a really good one this year.
Well first the "remotely good" 5 wins 18 podium car...)

Also, Vettel's Ferrari's were painfully obviously just as good as Alonso's Ferraris for the most part, occupying the exact same area of the grid, sometimes challenging for wins, sometimes dropping back to fight off midfielders.

Besides, thats hardly even the point, its a FERRARI. its what you make of it for crying out loud. Ferrari will always give you the same, history, prestige, huge know-how and a huge budget, its how you use those tools , how you make all these components work for you, how you build (and re-build) the team around you, THATS what will make a Ferrari champion a Ferrari champion.

Ferrari dont give the world Brawn Racing type of world champions, whos been handed an absolute monster that was a clear second faster than anyone, so you just had to drive it home and beat the grandpa driving the same livery, Ferrari will give you a decent car, and you will have to become a part of the familia to make it a masterpiece together. Vettel certainly seems to be doing an at the very least an Alonso-league job at it so far at it, and my money on him not leaving the team without a title.

Alonso was very smug about Vettel's abilities when he took his place at Ferrari, and his hat should be already half eaten, with a generous splash of ketchup ready for the second half.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 13:23 (Ref:3756405)   #96
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Ferrari dont give the world Brawn Racing type of world champions, whos been handed an absolute monster that was a clear second faster than anyone,
Errrr - were you watching the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Barrichello years? You know - when Ferrari had absolute monsters that were a clear second faster than anyone?
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:04 (Ref:3756426)   #97
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Errrr - were you watching the Schumacher/Brawn/Todt/Barrichello years? You know - when Ferrari had absolute monsters that were a clear second faster than anyone?
it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 15:26 (Ref:3756427)   #98
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it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.
No - he dragged the early dogs of cars to decent results (like Alonso does) then when the 'super team' of Brawn/Todt and whoever else it was got their **** together he rode the unbeatable cars to multiple titles. Just like Vettel did with the Newey Red Bulls.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 16:04 (Ref:3756439)   #99
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Ferrari will give you a decent car
Might.

Never forget the era spawned by the 312T5.

As others have mentioned, when Schumacher joined Ferrari they had a dog. He/Brawn/Todt/Byrne turned it into a donkey, then a pony, then a thoroughbred which dominated.

They're not immune to producing rubbish.
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Old 31 Jul 2017, 23:53 (Ref:3756553)   #100
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it took 5 years for schumi to win his first title with ferrari ,he made that monster, which is exactly the point.
Vettel hasn't made anything! Nor did Schu. It's the Management and engineering/technical departments that come up with the goods. The drivers are paid to assist with development and have to make the most of what they've been given.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 09:04 (Ref:3756616)   #101
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Tourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTourer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Vettel hasn't made anything! Nor did Schu. It's the Management and engineering/technical departments that come up with the goods. The drivers are paid to assist with development and have to make the most of what they've been given.
Completely agree. The drivers do contribute in regard to feedback on exactly what they need & want in the car to extract the most out of themselves and how the car could be improved in regard to what it does but ultimately they neither design, nor build, nor maintain the cars - the teams do that.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 07:40 (Ref:3763369)   #102
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This is hilarious.. poor old Vettel trying his best here.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...orders-947385/
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 09:52 (Ref:3763379)   #103
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Well, we all know how the hierarchy was always going to work there. There never was any doubts over status in the team, and more than there really is at Mercedes, or many of the other teams, for that matter.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 10:29 (Ref:3763389)   #104
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This is hilarious.. poor old Vettel trying his best here.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/v...orders-947385/
Looking closely at what Vettel says though, it is not as clear cut as just denying team orders exist.
One thing that Schumacher was regularly criticised for was the fact that his teammates would pull aside and let him past. This is what the general viewer seems to take offence too as 'team orders'.

Most F1 viewers can accept that tactics play a part in F1, and are willing to forgive a driver acting as a rear-gunner for their teammate. They also are generally fine with giving a tow in qualifying, even if the driver sacrifices their own result.

It is this kind of tactical play that I think Vettel is wanting to portray as happening at Ferrari, in an attempt to make them seem more sporting than Mercedes. A clear #1 and #2 in a team is fine, and he is putting forward the claim that Ferrari allows a #2 driver to properly race, but will also be the recipient of the least preferred position when it comes to tactical decisions such as when to pit.

At the season's end, if Hamilton wins the title, Vettel wants the narrative to read that Mercedes used team orders to give Hamilton the title, with Bottas handing over positions without a challenge, whilst Ferrari employed tactics to give him the best chance but he still had to compete with his teammate to get the results.
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Old 1 Sep 2017, 13:47 (Ref:3763426)   #105
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And I guess he hopes that we'll believe that.....
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