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Old 1 Aug 2017, 11:31 (Ref:3756671)   #76
crmalcolm
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crmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridcrmalcolm should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by wnut View Post
His front wing was very close to Seb's back wheel when he got on the clamps,

He was on the outside, and turning into the rear of SV so needed some retardation to prevent losing his front wing or causing a collision.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 13:44 (Ref:3756717)   #77
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tux should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridtux should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I was wondering why Sean Gelael is testing for Torro Rosso rather than Gasly?
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 17:04 (Ref:3756738)   #78
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I was wondering why Sean Gelael is testing for Torro Rosso rather than Gasly?
Gasly will test for Red Bull, tomorrow iirc.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 17:24 (Ref:3756745)   #79
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I was wondering why Sean Gelael is testing for Torro Rosso rather than Gasly?
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 18:27 (Ref:3756760)   #80
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Interesting to look at Max's little happening with Ricciardo at 1:06 in the above Youtube clip, he would have run into the back of Lewis if he hadn't locked up, and Ricciardo could possibly have run right round the outside of Lewis if he hadn't been torpedoed!
Lewis was very slow into that corner!
Instead of focusing on the in-car view at 1:06, watch the exterior view and note the lines of the top four cars and relative positions of the cars to each other. Watch from 0:24 through 0:27. Lewis is taking a slightly tighter line than the two leading Ferrari's (probably to protect the inside line). Depending upon how wide Lewis might have run, there is the potential that Daniel could have worked the outside line. Max had rejoined the circuit on the previous turn and generally has open track in front of him but resulted in him trying to catch up and entered the turn in question too hot. He was just going too fast into this particular corner. Especially given the traffic around him. There was nowhere to go by the time he reached the turn "given his lack of braking" and resulting entry speed. It appears that Lewis was going slow only because he slowed to make the turn (also note position of Lewis relative to Kimi). Also note relative car positions and lines at around 0:27 on exit. Everything is pretty normal. Even Max has a relatively natural exit, but that is only because he scrubbed speed off via collision with Daniel.

Short version, Max entered turn too fast, locked left front and slid into his team mate. Nobody to blame but himself.

Note: I am not sure who the announcers are in that video, but one of them (David Croft???) needs to drink less coffee.

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Old 1 Aug 2017, 19:01 (Ref:3756764)   #81
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Instead of focusing on the in-car view at 1:06, watch the exterior view and note the lines of the top four cars and relative positions of the cars to each other. Watch from 0:24 through 0:27. Lewis is taking a slightly tighter line than the two leading Ferrari's (probably to protect the inside line). Depending upon how wide Lewis might have run, there is the potential that Daniel could have worked the outside line. Max had rejoined the circuit on the previous turn and generally has open track in front of him but resulted in him trying to catch up and entered the turn in question too hot. He was just going too fast into this particular corner. Especially given the traffic around him. There was nowhere to go by the time he reached the turn "given his lack of braking" and resulting entry speed. It appears that Lewis was going slow only because he slowed to make the turn (also note position of Lewis relative to Kimi). Also note relative car positions and lines at around 0:27 on exit. Everything is pretty normal. Even Max has a relatively natural exit, but that is only because he scrubbed speed off via collision with Daniel.

Short version, Max entered turn too fast, locked left front and slid into his team mate. Nobody to blame but himself.

Note: I am not sure who the announcers are in that video, but one of them (David Croft???) needs to drink less coffee.

Richard
I think it was like Daniel said. Max had a great start jumping to third. Than he gets screwed by Kimi, than squeezed off by Bottas and than he sees Daniel drive by as well. I think he lost his cool a bit and just wanted to keep that place no matter what especially on a track where overtaking is close to impossible. If he had braked just half a meter earlier he might have still been able to avoid Daniel and it would've been cool to see who would've come out on top out of turn three.

Rare mistake by Max and he clearly felt bad about it. He'll learn from this but I suppose it will always be part of his character. But better people with character than drivers who let people pass on DRS just because everyone does. No use in watching that.
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Old 1 Aug 2017, 23:01 (Ref:3756805)   #82
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Originally Posted by F1Guy View Post
Kimi break tested Max, hoping it would cause a concertina effect when Max braked - and take out the two Merc's behind. Typical Ferrari tactics. Probably discussed and planned during the pre race debrief.



Which race was that?
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Old 2 Aug 2017, 03:15 (Ref:3756826)   #83
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Instead of focusing on the in-car view at 1:06, watch the exterior view and note the lines of the top four cars and relative positions of the cars to each other. Watch from 0:24 through 0:27. Lewis is taking a slightly tighter line than the two leading Ferrari's (probably to protect the inside line). Depending upon how wide Lewis might have run, there is the potential that Daniel could have worked the outside line. Max had rejoined the circuit on the previous turn and generally has open track in front of him but resulted in him trying to catch up and entered the turn in question too hot. He was just going too fast into this particular corner. Especially given the traffic around him. There was nowhere to go by the time he reached the turn "given his lack of braking" and resulting entry speed. It appears that Lewis was going slow only because he slowed to make the turn (also note position of Lewis relative to Kimi). Also note relative car positions and lines at around 0:27 on exit. Everything is pretty normal. Even Max has a relatively natural exit, but that is only because he scrubbed speed off via collision with Daniel.

Short version, Max entered turn too fast, locked left front and slid into his team mate. Nobody to blame but himself.

Note: I am not sure who the announcers are in that video, but one of them (David Croft???) needs to drink less coffee.

Richard
I agree with everything you have said here, I think that Max was so focused on Ricciardo that he never even thought of a car in front of him until the back of Lewis suddenly got big on him. I think that Max could have gone through the inside of Ricciardo and blocked off turn 3 if Lewis was not covering off the inside, not there at all. Totally Max's fault, nobody else's.

Did you see the second Sauber going into turn 1 off the start?!

That got a bit big quickly!

Funny you should mention Croft, I actually muted the TV off the start because of his shouting, unpleasant! Couple of valiums might help him.

Last edited by wnut; 2 Aug 2017 at 03:21.
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Old 3 Aug 2017, 18:03 (Ref:3757232)   #84
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Sorry, I just don't see it. Maybe you are projecting what is a particularly negative perspective onto those in the video? Seeing what you want to see? I will say if anything is odd about that is the lack of any reaction from Lauda, but then again, I don't pay much attention to him, so for all I know it might not be unusual for him. I believe I have seen similar reactions from Toto before when something goes right for the team?

Maybe you and the others are right. But there are odd things there. Like you mentioned, the way Lauda is expressionless while Toto is yelling to his face. And at the end, when Toto is removing his headphones. Doesn't look that happy to me. Unless there was a heated discussion within the ream over the issue of their drivers' positions and he's still fuming from it, even after he got his way.

Toto made a negative impression on me with the way Mercedes won the DTM title in 2015. Also I'm not sure what happened with Paddy Lowe. It's speculative, but I wouldn't say I'm "seeing what I want to see". There's really nothing that I want from Toto. Anyway, if that is his "happy reaction", I don't want to be near him when he's angry.
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Old 5 Aug 2017, 18:38 (Ref:3757607)   #85
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Lauda looks like the one upset whilst Wolff is celebrating. Having seen Lauda's stoney reaction, Wolff then looks a bit awkward.

I don't think Lauda approved of the swaperoo at all and he's a cantankerous fellow. Lauda is also too old and timeworn to bother with grudges -- so I don't think it's a signal of anything other than a brief disagreement.

That's what it looked like to me. And Wolff was fairly fluent in explaining it afterwards. So I'm inclined to think that was it. I didn't see an interview from Lauda.
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Old 5 Aug 2017, 18:47 (Ref:3757609)   #86
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0tacBbm4gc

There's the interview with Lauda. He seems to approve it in retrospect but was perhaps concerned at the time that it was too risky to be tried - without the radio as well.
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Old 6 Aug 2017, 00:54 (Ref:3757649)   #87
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Does anybody speak enough Italian to make proper sense of this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWARYD_Tje4

"Scontro Toto Wolf Niki Lauda: Hamilton NON doveva restituire la posizione a Bottas | Hungarian 2017 "


Basically says that

"Clash Toto Wolf Niki Lauda: Hamilton NEVER had to return the position at Bottas | Hungarian 2017"

The nuances of the interview may be interesting and provide some clarity to Totos and Lauda's reactions though.

Last edited by wnut; 6 Aug 2017 at 01:13.
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Old 6 Aug 2017, 20:25 (Ref:3757810)   #88
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The Verstappen incident was perhaps demonstrative of Max's rashness and Daniel may have been right that losing out in both Turn 1 and now Turn 2 to his team-mate would have been too much to take. However, I'm not sure that I would have given Verstappen te penalty as this was not overly-aggressive driving during a move or botching the move, but from my view was more like him putting his car on the inside early on and then outbraking himself. Arguably the same thing, though. His car positioning wasn't bad and the lock-up was typical of the first few corners of a race.

Daniel's reactions were interesting. The typical heat-of-the-moment reaction was said on the radio and if you were being mean you could say it made him look like a sore loser after losing out in a typical Lap 1 incident. His interview on the BBC was more measured and he made the point about Verstappen needing to blot over-react to his team-mate.
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