[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[Purist]

Yeah, I'm glad Charlie Whiting himself suggested the long course at Buenos Aires; I don't think the short course would be all that great for the racing in either F1 or WEC. Even if they use the Turn 2 chicane heading out onto the long loop, that's still going to be FAST, which I'm fine with that.

Now, I imagine they'd use one form or another of the second infield section after returning from the loop. I'd hope, especially if they were to use the short pit-in, that they use Tobogan for the exit from the infield, rather than the Senna S.

[carbsmith]

A lane isn't the exact width of a car.

Originally Posted by Purist

What you can physically fit when the vehicles are sitting still and what you can realistically do when at racing speeds are two entirely different things.

So why are you talking about the former?

In low speed corners like the turn 2-3-4 section at Sebring prototypes aren't highly motivated to pass GT cars because they have very similar corner speeds, so the only challenging section is between Cunningham and Tower where GT cars need to cross the track four times. Meanwhile just following a GT car through Westfield would be like a 2s time loss. Westfield and Sheene are like the last turns at Road Atlanta and Lime Rock which are two of the most dangerous corners in US sports car racing. Back to back.

[Speed-King]

About this track-width thing: Google Earth has a measuring tool - so this question should be really easy to settle and not take up page after page in this thread.

Gesendet von meinem HTC Desire 526G dual sim mit Tapatalk

[AoB Special Stage]

I'm more concerned about Clark and Paddock Hill themselves. The problem is the tighter corners, it's the sequences of multiple fast corners where the aerodynamic advantage of the P2 cars causes them to fly up onto the back of the GT cars.

[Purist]

That "CIRCUITI" site I mentioned earlier has multiple lengths listed for many tracks and track configurations, and a number of those include a length calculated from the aerial photo. However, that length usually differs to some degree from the FIA standard length given. So when I'm looking at a difference in width of only 6-12 feet, I'm not necessarily too trusting of the degree of accuracy I'm going to get using that method.

What IS a "lane width"? The standard for roads nowadays over here is 12 feet. I think at least originally, tracks like Pocono and Texas World Speedway were paved in ribbons of that width. Some ovals seem to be paved in 10-foot-wide strips. IF "the Boot" is 36 feet wide and four lanes, that's 9 feet apiece. However, I'm pretty darn sure Barber is 40 feet wide, and it's paved in only three lanes, so that's 13 feet, 4 inches per, in that case. I'm guessing the Brands Hatch GP Loop is maybe paved in three-meter-wide portions. At any rate, it's unreliable from track to track.

Fundamentally, I NEED to be able to make sense of one basic thing here. Road America is 30 feet wide. They can go three-abreast there, even at Turn 2, in the Morraine Sweeps, and through Kettle Bottoms. If Road Atlanta is 10 feet wider, it makes no sense why we don't see four-wide down the back stretch, on the run from Turn 5 to Turn 6, or on the front straight. If Mosport is 12 feet wider, it's inexplicable why we don't see four side-by-side up the Andretti Straight or past the pits. Even if Watkins Glen is just 6 feet wider than Road America, the back straight is truly straight; we should be seeing four-wide there in multi-class sportscar racing in that case. Not only are we NOT seeing it in the IMSA or IndyCar races at those circuits, at race speeds, it doesn't even look like it would be reasonably possible. It DOES look possible at a track like Barber, which as I said, should be 40 feet wide (meeting the 12-meter-wide FIA standard).

To be convincing, I NEED this above phenomenon explained.

[Purist]

It isn't just across the top at Sebring where GTs hold up the Prototypes. I've seen it happen a number of times in the Fangio Esse (the right-then-left after the "Safety Pin"). It's also quite common along that stretch coming back down on the east side of the circuit where the track has that little jink just to the right, and then kinks back to the left; the line there just about narrows to one usable lane for an instant. You also see bottlenecks in traffic in those three corners leading onto the Ullmann Straight.

I've checked some onboards, Westfield and Sheene are slower than Road Atlanta Turn 12 or Diving Turn at Lime Rock. The Lamborghini on Blancpain GT Pole this year took Westfield and Sheene in 4th. Last year, on some random practice lap, one of the Corvette C7.Rs took Diving Turn in 6th. A 2012 Porsche 911 GT3 Cup car took Road Atlanta Turn 12 in 5th. And unlike Road Atlanta Turn 12, Westfield and Sheene have appreciable run-off. Also, unlike Lime Rock's Diving Turn, Westfield and Sheene have sizable gravel traps to arrest out-of-control vehicles.

[Victor_RO]

This whole Brands Hatch discussion is pointless. The single reason you need for the WEC not ever being able to go there was posted a few pages ago, and it's noise regs. The locals will never ever ever ever ever in the future of everness allow a 6h race in their back yard, the limits on how and when the full GP loop can be used are insane and an endurance race would be impossible to fit in there.

[Purist]

LMPs also lost a fair bit of time in a number of places at Mexico City, like staying behind GTs through Turns 4-6. More relevant to this discussion would be them getting held up in the Esses, where the P cars are markedly quicker, and will lose a boatload of time getting stuck. And the barriers around there aren't so terribly far away in places. Also, as compared to before Tilke did his job on Mexico City, you're now pointed more directly at the barriers at several points in the middle of the Esses.

AoB, Clark/Clearways and Paddock Hill are quick corners; they're taken in 4th by the top GT3s in Blancpain. Both those turns also have large gravel beds to catch anyone going out wide.

Basically, you have Druids (taken in 2nd), Graham Hill (3rd), Surtees (3rd), and Stirling's (also 3rd) that are the slower corners. None of these have blind approaches, and Stirling's, being preceded by those high-downforce corners, is banked, which will help with overtaking traffic; an LMP2 can more easily just sweep by around the outside there.

[Purist]

I really don't care about the NIMBY's. British GT and Blancpain have found ways. ChampCar found a way, even if it was on the Indy Circuit; I'm sure the noise went a fair distance anyway.

The owners of the circuit just need to make it damn clear they're not selling. So, if there's no racing, what's a derelict site next door going to do to the adjacent land values?

(The city where I live, you can't get away from aircraft noise completely. So, if they have one or two more weekends a year of something going on, they can suck it up; they won't get my sympathies.)

[HORNDAWG]

Neveu said that Silverstone is top of the list for re-inclusion in 19-20, on MWM today.






L.P.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Neveu said that Silverstone is top of the list for re-inclusion in 19-20, on MWM today.


L.P.

...and that the TBC for 18-19 was not Mexico.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by sceptic

...and that the TBC for 18-19 was not Mexico.

Also said that Nurburgring was off for 2018 regardless... interesting.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by Victor_RO

This whole Brands Hatch discussion is pointless. The single reason you need for the WEC not ever being able to go there was posted a few pages ago, and it's noise regs. The locals will never ever ever ever ever in the future of everness allow a 6h race in their back yard, the limits on how and when the full GP loop can be used are insane and an endurance race would be impossible to fit in there.

[chernaudi]

Just be glad that no one's said "run on a roval" outside of Daytona. The races in the early days of the ALMS were interesting and DTM still kinds runs on one at EuroSpeedway.

But I think that IMSA has largely out grown running on rovals and the WEC probably would never do it. Just remember how many cars blew tires on the Rovals at Charlotte, Las Vegas and Texas Motor Speedway in 2000 and '01.

[AoB Special Stage]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Just be glad that no one's said "run on a roval" outside of Daytona. The races in the early days of the ALMS were interesting and DTM still kinds runs on one at EuroSpeedway.

But I think that IMSA has largely out grown running on rovals and the WEC probably would never do it. Just remember how many cars blew tires on the Rovals at Charlotte, Las Vegas and Texas Motor Speedway in 2000 and '01.

I'm just thinking about that giant lip on the Oreca bottoming out. I kinda like the roval at Texas, idk why. Not for WEC, mind.

[Victor_RO]

Originally Posted by Purist

I really don't care about the NIMBY's. British GT and Blancpain have found ways. ChampCar found a way, even if it was on the Indy Circuit; I'm sure the noise went a fair distance anyway.

The owners of the circuit just need to make it damn clear they're not selling. So, if there's no racing, what's a derelict site next door going to do to the adjacent land values?

(The city where I live, you can't get away from aircraft noise completely. So, if they have one or two more weekends a year of something going on, they can suck it up; they won't get my sympathies.)

British GT, Blancpain and BTCC are taking up 3 of the very few weekends where Brands is legally allowed to host races on the full GP track, and even then there's a 6pm noise curfew. It's happened to a huge amount of tracks in the UK, they got hammered with lawsuits into cutting down full-noise days and if they breach them they'll get sued into oblivion (see Mallory Park). There is no "suck it up" culture with racetrack NIMBYs in the UK.

[Purist]

If I were REALLY worked up and feeling not very nice, I think my heat-of-the-moment response might be something along the lines of, "I'm gonna continue to operate come Hell or high water. If you don't like the noise, don't move next to a bloody racetrack that's been here since before you were born. I'm not paying a damn pence, so the only way you're getting anything is if YOU come HERE and forcibly TAKE IT literally over my dead body. Have a nice day, gentlemen; I have work to do."

(If I've thoroughly put my heart and soul into a track and its events like that, the ONLY WAY I'm giving it up is if THEY inflict VIOLENCE upon ME.)

[Akrapovic]

We all agree with you, and as much as we all want unlimited days around Brands GP, they have a legal limit. Breaching that limit will just get the circuit closed down. Yes these people shouldn't be allowed to do this (the only reason those houses were cheap were because there was a race track there), yes we all agree. But the local council does not, and they can argue it's a health and safety issue, being subjected to the noise.

You're preaching to the converted, but whether we like it or not, that's how it is. If they just do what they want, they'll get closed down. I suspect that's a big reason MSV bought Donington, because that can be upgraded to run things like ELMS if needed, where as Brands Hatch will never be able to.

[Coach Ep]

Originally Posted by sceptic

...and that the TBC for 18-19 was not Mexico.

Of course not, it's Kuwait. But their deal was made for a late January race, not somewhere in February. The last minute change by the WEC last Friday means updated contracts need to be signed. That will happen shortly I'm sure, after which it can be announced.

[chernaudi]

I wonder if it's coincidence or by design that the 2018/19 season aligns with the Japanese fiscal year and the end of the season aligns with being close to the end of the NA/EU fiscal year?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Of course not, it's Kuwait. But their deal was made for a late January race, not somewhere in February. The last minute change by the WEC last Friday means updated contracts need to be signed. That will happen shortly I'm sure, after which it can be announced.

They have said that they'll have 2 in the Americas, which meant Kuwait was out.

I don't know shipping times. Is it possible to ship everything by sea from Kuwait to Florida in a month?

[TF110]

On DSC, taken from the MWM interview, Mexico is out, and the 'two in the America's' looks like Interlagos. But there's possibilities it could be Argentina and COTA still floating around.

[chernaudi]

Interlagos or anywhere else will only be a go if someone puts up the money for it. That's why Bahrain was on the schedule for so long, because the royal family basically shoved money into the ACO's wallet.

Something similar will have to happen I bet for whoever wants to come in.

[Purist]

I wonder if Interlagos uses the prospect of a WEC race, which should be markedly cheaper, as some sort of (small) leverage with the new F1 management.

If they'd want any Argentinian track to build new garages anyway, that opens things up. Along with Buenos Aires, both Potrero de los Funes and Rosendo Hernandez should be at least as close to having Grade 2 run-offs and such.

I'm no advocate for rovals, but I wouldn't totally dismiss them out of hand. About the biggest problem I see generally with those tracks, aside from the limitation of being within an oval, is the pit exit dumping cars right out into traffic. I only really recall the Corvette having that blow-out at Texas in 2001, so I'm not sure about the others; I'm watching those ALMS races now. Old IMSA also made use of Atlanta, Phoenix, Pocono, and Talladega, while Can-Am ran the 3.0-mile variants of Michigan and Texas World Speedway.

In the old WSC of course, Daytona was used a number of times. Also, well, how would you guys classify the combined circuit at Monza?

I wouldn't particularly recommend it for the WEC now though.

[carbsmith]

I guess they figure with Interlagos getting its F1 renovations the track might not be in an abhorrent state a couple months later when WEC rolls in like it has been in the past. CotA seems to be the backup but you may as well go to Homestead for all the good it would do.