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Old 27 Jul 2017, 10:40 (Ref:3754659)   #1
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Petrol Car Ban By 2040..Good Bye F1?

Petrol car ban by 2040......https://www.ft.com/content/7e61d3ae-...f-99f383b09ff9

Looks like the end is nigh for F1 as we know it...better start getting excited about the prospect of Formula E taking over as the pinnacle of motorsport..
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 11:18 (Ref:3754661)   #2
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The statement bans the sale of new cars with ICEs, F1 cars aren't sold when new. Besides F1 is already planning its next evolution, there will probably be another couple of evolutions before 2040
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 16:34 (Ref:3754768)   #3
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following some of the EU stories but not in great detail...is it a full ban on all petrol and diesels or will hybrids still be allowed?

if its the latter then F1 is already ahead of the curve no?
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 16:52 (Ref:3754776)   #4
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Originally Posted by Armco Bender View Post
Petrol car ban by 2040......https://www.ft.com/content/7e61d3ae-...f-99f383b09ff9

Looks like the end is nigh for F1 as we know it...better start getting excited about the prospect of Formula E taking over as the pinnacle of motorsport..
Good news for nature, but not for F1...
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 18:36 (Ref:3754814)   #5
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following some of the EU stories but not in great detail...is it a full ban on all petrol and diesels or will hybrids still be allowed?

if its the latter then F1 is already ahead of the curve no?
The ban is on purely on the sale of new Petrol and Diesel cars. Hybrid cars can still be sold although by then new hybrids probably have the same ICE capacity as a lawnmower, but with 4 turbos.

The ban doesn't effect Trucks or Buses

It's ben suggested that there will still be millions of petrol/diesel cars on the road after that point.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 18:51 (Ref:3754822)   #6
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The ban is on purely on the sale of new Petrol and Diesel cars. Hybrid cars can still be sold although by then new hybrids probably have the same ICE capacity as a lawnmower, but with 4 turbos.

The ban doesn't effect Trucks or Buses

It's ben suggested that there will still be millions of petrol/diesel cars on the road after that point.
The discussions I've heard seem pretty clear that new cars will not have petrol or diesel engines at all so no hybrids either. I cannot imagine this will happen on time but it's bound to happen in the end. Of course there will be a large but dwindling legacy ICE fleet and I imagine there will come a point where people with ICE engines start to suffer range anxiety as more and more filling stations become uneconomic and close down, unless of course enough stay open to serve commercial vehicles.

I don't see how this has any direct connection with motorsport, I see it applying to vehicles for use on the road but huge changes are undoubtedly coming to motorsport too and much of the lower cost parts of the sport have an almost total reliance on parts mass produced for road cars which might become more specialist and expensive.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 19:10 (Ref:3754831)   #7
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The discussions I've heard seem pretty clear that new cars will not have petrol or diesel engines at all so no hybrids either.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868

Hybrid vehicles, which combine petrol and electric motors, will not be included in the sales ban.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 19:18 (Ref:3754837)   #8
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40726868

Hybrid vehicles, which combine petrol and electric motors, will not be included in the sales ban.
Seems I got it wrong, in that case this is completely meaningless as even with no government action at all you won't be able to buy a new non hybrid car with a diesel or petrol engine in 2040, what a joke of an announcement, absolutely pathetic, can't imagine why the media are even covering it.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 20:44 (Ref:3754876)   #9
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I find the comments reflect a rather parochial outlook.Does nobody remember the days when some governments banned cigarette advertising?It didn't kill F1,even though it necessitated having two liveries for each car.It does serve to indicate that the policies of one or two governments might have an effect in those places and that the series can find other places to race where they don't have to comply with such matters.The challenge might be in getting the racing apparatus and appurtenances to the circuits using compliant rad vehicles.
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3754904)   #10
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I find the comments reflect a rather parochial outlook.Does nobody remember the days when some governments banned cigarette advertising?It didn't kill F1,even though it necessitated having two liveries for each car.It does serve to indicate that the policies of one or two governments might have an effect in those places and that the series can find other places to race where they don't have to comply with such matters.The challenge might be in getting the racing apparatus and appurtenances to the circuits using compliant rad vehicles.
Precisely!

One of my greatest problems is when you take a look at bulk oil carriers which run HUGE 2 stroke diesels that burn crude oil, you wonder just how much pollution you could save from sorting out shipping alone.
Far more than cars I would venture!
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Old 27 Jul 2017, 22:56 (Ref:3754908)   #11
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Seems I got it wrong, in that case this is completely meaningless as even with no government action at all you won't be able to buy a new non hybrid car with a diesel or petrol engine in 2040, what a joke of an announcement, absolutely pathetic, can't imagine why the media are even covering it.
Hybrid cars are just a sad joke, they are electric cars made inefficient by carrying a petrol engine and power train around, and a petrol power train made inefficient by carrying an electric motor and batteries around.

The ideal would appear to be a full size slot car set!
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 05:33 (Ref:3754950)   #12
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Hybrid cars are just a sad joke, they are electric cars made inefficient by carrying a petrol engine and power train around, and a petrol power train made inefficient by carrying an electric motor and batteries around.

The ideal would appear to be a full size slot car set!
I don't agree that hybrids as a concept are a joke although the current models may not be all that good, however whatever people might wish to be true the future is not fossil fuels. There are at least five technologies showing promise to store energy from whatever source for use by vehicles:battery (most mature), hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen ICE, alcohol fuel cells or ICE, compressed gas and liquid air. all except liquid air have already been used in vehicles, in some parts of the world compressed air is powering short range delivery vehicles,a bit like the early uses of battery vehicles but rechargeable as quickly as filling a tank with diesel.

As with alternative energy in general you can criticise any one technology because it will not solve the problem alone and use that as an excuse to do nothing, the trick is to use all the good ideas to complement one another.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 06:57 (Ref:3754986)   #13
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Precisely!

One of my greatest problems is when you take a look at bulk oil carriers which run HUGE 2 stroke diesels that burn crude oil, you wonder just how much pollution you could save from sorting out shipping alone.
Far more than cars I would venture!
Yes people always like to point out that shipping causes more overall pollution than cars, and they are not wrong. But VLCC oil carriers are not hanging out on the Thames in London, or downtown LA, and they have horrendous pollution problems. So what is causing that?

We're all car geeks and love our big loud engines, but that doesn't we have to defend the car on absolutely everything. Ships cause more worldwide pollution. Cars cause it where people actually live.
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 07:12 (Ref:3754991)   #14
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I don't agree that hybrids as a concept are a joke although the current models may not be all that good, however whatever people might wish to be true the future is not fossil fuels. There are at least five technologies showing promise to store energy from whatever source for use by vehicles:battery (most mature), hydrogen fuel cells, hydrogen ICE, alcohol fuel cells or ICE, compressed gas and liquid air. all except liquid air have already been used in vehicles, in some parts of the world compressed air is powering short range delivery vehicles,a bit like the early uses of battery vehicles but rechargeable as quickly as filling a tank with diesel.

As with alternative energy in general you can criticise any one technology because it will not solve the problem alone and use that as an excuse to do nothing, the trick is to use all the good ideas to complement one another.
I like the idea of 'rechargeable' compressed air vehicles, but the idea reminds me of something else.
Just down the road from where I work is an old railway engine in a field by the side of the road and when you've looked at it a dew times you realise that although it obviously is a steam train, there's something not quite right about it. Then you realise there's no funnel for the smoke, and that's because it has no firebox.
Apparently it was used in somewhere like a coke manufacturing plant, so a fire is the last thing you need, and was re-charged regularly from the steam boilers in the factory so it could go about its work safely. It would seem that there aren't really any new ideas, just improvements on the old ones...
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Old 28 Jul 2017, 09:00 (Ref:3755020)   #15
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I like the idea of 'rechargeable' compressed air vehicles, but the idea reminds me of something else.
Just down the road from where I work is an old railway engine in a field by the side of the road and when you've looked at it a dew times you realise that although it obviously is a steam train, there's something not quite right about it. Then you realise there's no funnel for the smoke, and that's because it has no firebox.
Apparently it was used in somewhere like a coke manufacturing plant, so a fire is the last thing you need, and was re-charged regularly from the steam boilers in the factory so it could go about its work safely. It would seem that there aren't really any new ideas, just improvements on the old ones...
There was one of those in a park where I grew up in Manchester, having been rescued from Irlam Steelworks, painted in gaudy colours and parked up for us to climb all over. It mostly got used as a toilet, if I recall correctly!

Steam is a *hugely* powerful energy carrier. Superheated wet steam is used the world over in chemical and large manufacturing plants because it's relatively easy to create and tends to stay in the pipes it moves around in. If it doesn't stay in the pipes, your plant is having a very bad day.
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