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Old 25 Oct 2017, 15:01 (Ref:3776397)   #26
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
F1 is at least moving with the times, but they've just decided they're too posh to let poor people be part of even viewing the sport, which is just lovely.
to be fair that is on the harsh side. there is more ways to access the sport now then ever before ranging from paid to free.

but based on this and other similar threads, it seems like the the division is between those who live in the UK and those who live outside of it.

with the advent of pay and subscription models those of use outside of the UK have far more and better viewing options and it sounds like we get it at far more affordable prices....so i would suggest is an issue for your local government's TV/Internet competition departments and not f1 per say.

but i can certainly understand that frustration that causes given the UK is basically one of the home bases for F1 and the fan base there was traditionally the only one that mattered.

anyway i dont think this is a rich vs poor argument and certainly not to the extent of a 'let them eat cake' scenario.
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Old 25 Oct 2017, 15:37 (Ref:3776404)   #27
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
The thing is TV is always there and it needs to be showed on proper TV to keep getting interest. That way more new fans will stumble on it and viewers and attendance should increase
And that's a good thing ? Fact is, the bigger it's got , the more the media tail has waged the sporting dog the more inaccessible and stupidly expensive it has become .
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Old 25 Oct 2017, 15:42 (Ref:3776405)   #28
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That's not how the future is going though. My kids don't watch TV. They find the idea of channel surfing on a TV bizarre, and the concept of TV schedules, tuning in at 8pm to see a show madness. It's all internet streaming now - whether it be through YouTube or another platform. Channel surfing doesn't happen now - featured videos, recommended videos and social media mentions is where you find new content.

That's what the kids are using, so they might as well embrace it now and be ready for when that generation becomes the target audience. You either move with the times, or get left behind. F1 is at least moving with the times, but they've just decided they're too posh to let poor people be part of even viewing the sport, which is just lovely.
Ditto. My teen and college age children watch ZERO TV, but consume quite a bit via streaming.

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Old 25 Oct 2017, 17:17 (Ref:3776425)   #29
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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
to be fair that is on the harsh side. there is more ways to access the sport now then ever before ranging from paid to free.
Until this year, they did their best to remove every YouTube video they could. They've been removing free access as quickly as they possibly could. I don't see how there are "more ways" to access the sport now, until they finally started looking at YouTube. Until that, I'd say there were far less ways.

There are more ways to access the Creventic Dubai 24H, or Blancpain Endurance Series than F1. And those are actually free.

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
with the advent of pay and subscription models those of use outside of the UK have far more and better viewing options and it sounds like we get it at far more affordable prices....so i would suggest is an issue for your local government's TV/Internet competition departments and not f1 per say.
It's not the governments fault that FOM signed a deal with SkyTV to put the series behind a massive pay wall. The fault of that lies strictly at the feet of FOM and Sky. Whilst TV packages can be expensive, there is plenty of free to air TV in the UK. F1 made the active choice to move away from this.

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Originally Posted by chillibowl View Post
anyway i dont think this is a rich vs poor argument and certainly not to the extent of a 'let them eat cake' scenario.
Actually I think it's exactly what it is. It's just put under another name, which we hear associated with F1 a lot - elitism. That's the posh name for it. Drop the European countries where the fans are, lets fly off to the middle east. They don't like F1, but they do like being important. Let's drop the German GP, French GP etc, where the fans are - that oil rich corrupt government would like a wee party. What is that, if not elite?

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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Ditto. My teen and college age children watch ZERO TV, but consume quite a bit via streaming.

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I don't know if you're similar to me, but I found it quite odd at first. It's very different to how I consumed media when growing up. But they have literally no interest in a television. The TV is simply a device to get YouTube up, so they can watch what they want, when they want it. Once you realise that's how the world is going, it makes sense for series to be streaming. It's completely out of the comfort zone for most of us (although I'm lucky that I'm young enough to adapt to it easily - I realise if you're 60, that's a big change you're being asked to make!), but we can't just deny that's how the world is going and say "things were better in the old days".

Streaming is the correct route for series to be going down. But affordable pricing is a must, because the current UK system is a complete joke, and that's purely down to the choices made by F1, nobody else.
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Old 25 Oct 2017, 17:24 (Ref:3776427)   #30
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Yep, completely agree Mike and at the risk of sounding like an old fogey, I don't want to have to stream F1 coverage at some future point and squint at it on a tablet or laptop, or faff about and get it to stream on my TV. I don't want to be bombared with data and camera angles or have 'brought to you by' at every turn. If Liberty want to monetise and commercialise what looks like a pretty well 'monetised' thing to me, they can count me out.

I want to turn my TV on a 5 minutes before the start, I don't want any pundits telling me what 'might happen' and I want to turn it off after the flag, I don't want the same pundits telling we what I have just seen for myself. That may be old fashioned viewing, but it suits me and as long as I can view it that way I will.
Could not agree more, I have no desire to pay to find out what a driver eats at breakfast or what his favourite place to shop is, just want to watch the cars go round and round for 90 mins
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 11:24 (Ref:3776580)   #31
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Lol at the American.

I gave up watching f1 many moons ago, flit in and out when races are on at times I can see and invariably Nigerian stream those as I do with any other paywall sport I watch.

I will never pay for a sport run by and for the very rich, it is preposterous to expect that or even justify it. The decision is made for profit, no other reason.

FOM decided to put he sport behind a paywall, and SKY joined them. Fans had no say, no input, just like it or lump it.

Fair enough, lump it is.

You can pay for it if you want, line the pockets of billionaires, but my conscience is clear thanks.
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 14:08 (Ref:3776611)   #32
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I'm rich enough to pay some US$ per month for cable tv (minimum wage here is US$ 400).

Last Sunday I went to my father's house, and opened Fox Sports Play to watch the F1 race. The stream froze every 5 seconds. That's not the future.
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 14:15 (Ref:3776612)   #33
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Originally Posted by NaBUru38 View Post
I'm rich enough to pay some US$ per month for cable tv (minimum wage here is US$ 400).

Last Sunday I went to my father's house, and opened Fox Sports Play to watch the F1 race. The stream froze every 5 seconds. That's not the future.
I once had a TV that couldn't get reception without going fuzzy. It didn't stop TVs becoming one of the biggest electrical devices in the history of the world.

Internet deliver of products is the future. Whether or not that future is 1 year or 20 years depends on your own infrastructure. But it is the future, it's just a matter of time scale.
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 15:41 (Ref:3776625)   #34
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
I once had a TV that couldn't get reception without going fuzzy. It didn't stop TVs becoming one of the biggest electrical devices in the history of the world.

Internet deliver of products is the future. Whether or not that future is 1 year or 20 years depends on your own infrastructure. But it is the future, it's just a matter of time scale.
I think that many of us regular members tend to forget just how lucky we are with our broadband supply. Taking myself as an example, I have just re-negotiated my cable package, and as part of that, I have had my broadband turned down from in excess of 200 mbps to just over 100, and regular speed test results show that it is pretty stable.

However, I used to live in quite a populated area of the Costa Blanca, and where I lived I was only able to get a very unstable 3-5 mbps on a copper wire supply, and my old neighbours tell me that that hasn't improved yet. Others nearby can't even have the copper wire supply because Telefonica haven't the infrastructure to provide it. If they are lucky they can get a sort of microwave system to give them broadband, but a lot of the companies providing that do not have the licences top offer the service, and often competing companies boost their signals resulting in customers from other suppliers losing their service.

So, for many people, 20 years may not be long enough before they receive a decent broadband. Don't overlook the fact that there are still areas of the UK that still can't get broadband, let alone a stable fibre cable based system. And we are supposed to be quite sophisticated.
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 16:56 (Ref:3776633)   #35
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All of that is true, but that doesn't matter. At one point TVs were extremely popular, and there were areas that couldn't get reception. When Channel 5 rolled out in the UK, it didn't even include Scotland. You could get fuzz at best (and the Scottish football games became exclusive to channel 5 at the time too - and we couldn't see them up here). What you are describing is exactly how every technology in the history of the human race has ever rolled out - some have it good, some have it bad, and it keeps on going. You can apply this to TV, radio, motor vehicles, powered boats, airplanes (especially relevant example here!) - everything.

Let's also keep things in perspective. I picked 20 years as a random number, but it most certainly is enough to get an internet quality to stream HD media. HD only requires a stable 5 mbps. 20 years ago, speeds were approximately 56k. In 20 years that's a 90 fold improvement. The internet is progressing technology quicker than we've ever seen before. Everything is now connected to the internet - smart homes with fridges that have twitter access, to wifi stats from your vehicle, to syncing text messages (which are also moving to internet, away from SMS) to every device you own. I'm not saying we need (or want) a fridge that can tweet, but the fact is, that's how the world is going - that's the future. A fully integrated smart home. For some that's 50 years away, for others that's not even the future - that's now.

Also, there's no reason why you can't have both internet and TV. We still had horse and cart when we had early motor vehicles. Saying the internet is the future is not saying that TVs will all be turned off by 2020.

And the final nail in the coffin is every TV company has made serious plans for integrating or switching to online services. BBC, ITV and Channel 4 all offer it in the UK, as does Sky, Virgin, and then you have the countless tech companies - Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

What you say isn't wrong - it's completely correct. But that won't stop progression. We may not like it, and may not suit everybody, but fringe problems with broadband speeds are not stopping the juggernaut that is internet streaming. What the TV accomplished in 100 years, YouTube has done in 12. That is staggering, and it will be the default way of getting things within most of our life times. Ignoring the internet is a death sentence - just ask Woolworths.

Fun stat - since your post at 16:41, and my post at 17:52, there have been 21,600 hours of content added to YouTube. 244,000,000 videos were watched. Most of those are probably cat videos, but I suppose it's better than reality TV.
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 18:19 (Ref:3776659)   #36
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Fun stat - since your post at 16:41, and my post at 17:52, there have been 21,600 hours of content added to YouTube. 244,000,000 videos were watched. Most of those are probably cat videos, but I suppose it's better than reality TV.
wow. crazy stat!
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Old 26 Oct 2017, 20:08 (Ref:3776672)   #37
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All of that is true, but that doesn't matter. At one point TVs were extremely popular, and there were areas that couldn't get reception. When Channel 5 rolled out in the UK, it didn't even include Scotland. You could get fuzz at best (and the Scottish football games became exclusive to channel 5 at the time too - and we couldn't see them up here). What you are describing is exactly how every technology in the history of the human race has ever rolled out - some have it good, some have it bad, and it keeps on going. You can apply this to TV, radio, motor vehicles, powered boats, airplanes (especially relevant example here!) - everything.

Let's also keep things in perspective. I picked 20 years as a random number, but it most certainly is enough to get an internet quality to stream HD media. HD only requires a stable 5 mbps. 20 years ago, speeds were approximately 56k. In 20 years that's a 90 fold improvement. The internet is progressing technology quicker than we've ever seen before. Everything is now connected to the internet - smart homes with fridges that have twitter access, to wifi stats from your vehicle, to syncing text messages (which are also moving to internet, away from SMS) to every device you own. I'm not saying we need (or want) a fridge that can tweet, but the fact is, that's how the world is going - that's the future. A fully integrated smart home. For some that's 50 years away, for others that's not even the future - that's now.

Also, there's no reason why you can't have both internet and TV. We still had horse and cart when we had early motor vehicles. Saying the internet is the future is not saying that TVs will all be turned off by 2020.

And the final nail in the coffin is every TV company has made serious plans for integrating or switching to online services. BBC, ITV and Channel 4 all offer it in the UK, as does Sky, Virgin, and then you have the countless tech companies - Netflix, Amazon, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, etc.

What you say isn't wrong - it's completely correct. But that won't stop progression. We may not like it, and may not suit everybody, but fringe problems with broadband speeds are not stopping the juggernaut that is internet streaming. What the TV accomplished in 100 years, YouTube has done in 12. That is staggering, and it will be the default way of getting things within most of our life times. Ignoring the internet is a death sentence - just ask Woolworths.

Fun stat - since your post at 16:41, and my post at 17:52, there have been 21,600 hours of content added to YouTube. 244,000,000 videos were watched. Most of those are probably cat videos, but I suppose it's better than reality TV.
I, possibly, didn't explain my position fully. I don't disagree with you about the direction of travel for viewing in the future, regardless of the fact that I am an old fart who doesn't like change. However, I do actually embrace, somewhat reluctantly it must be said, new technology. In fact, I digitalized my company back in 1982, way before any of my competitors and have used electronic goods ever since.

But my point remains that I do believe that modern media delivery mediums for motorsport are changing faster than it's audience are able to receive it. It's all very well moving F1 behind a paywall in just over twelve months in the UK, but I contend that those disenfranchised by that move will not be able to take advantage of any live online content, regardless of whether it is legally obtained, because they don't have the infrastructure to bring it to them on devices that are suitable. I don't believe that people would want to watch a 90 minute race on a mobile device.

I think that the teams ( I don't give a fig about Liberty or FOM) will end up regretting this short-termism in the pursuit of $$$ when they quickly lose their audience.

Oh, and by the way, that is not the only place where money is wasted on white elephants. Spain has three new major international airports, constructed in the last ten years, that have no planes going to them. One, outside Madrid opened for a couple of years before closing due to lack of passengers and airlines willing to use the airport.

The second is a third airport near to Barcelona that was closed for years after completion, but opened to much fanfare to welcome Ryanair who only flew in about half a dozen flights before pulling out. It's now just gathering dust.

The third one is at the southern end of the Costa Blanca, and cost about €300 million to build, money which came from both the EU and the regional government after the private developer went bust. It has no licence to operate as an airport because the Spanish Ministry of Defence will not permit civilian aircraft to use the flight paths into and out of the airport because there are three military flying bases in the vicinity, and the civilian flight paths go through the military airspace. And one of the bases is actually controlled by NATO, and is used primarily for training specialist troops in high and low level parachute drops. The last thing that a free diving parachutist wants to see is a 737 full of holiday makers approaching him when he is practicing his manoeuvres.
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