[BTCC] BTCC 2018 Rumours & Silly Season

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

have you seen the current standings ?

Turkington 265 RWD
Sutton 261 RWD
Shedden 253
Collard 248 RWD
Ingram 204
Neal 172


if Shedden wasn't there you see total RWD dominance and a big points gap to the FWD cars

Having quoted the top six, then perhaps we should impose a penalty on Honda and BMW because they both have two cars in the top six?

There is only one Subaru, and two other RWD cars are being driven by former champions but aren't featuring.

Shedden is in a FWD car and challenging for a title, Plato and Jordan are in RWD cars and not challenging. So everything seems to be about right.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

So if a team without the resources or dare I say driver ability of WSR and BMR (of whom Cole and Price have done remarkably little despite Cole's experience and the huge advantage RWD gives them) ran a RWD car, by your logic they'd be frontrunners???

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

So if a team without the resources or dare I say driver ability of WSR and BMR (of whom Cole and Price have done remarkably little despite Cole's experience and the huge advantage RWD gives them) ran a RWD car, by your logic they'd be frontrunners???

I guess the person to ask would be Rob Austin?

[Londoner]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

have you seen the current standings ?

Turkington 265 RWD
Sutton 261 RWD
Shedden 253
Collard 248 RWD
Ingram 204
Neal 172


if Shedden wasn't there you see total RWD dominance and a big points gap to the FWD cars

Tell me, do you ever get bored of whinging and trolling? Let's take a trip through history, to the beginning of the BTCC modern era.

1991 - Will Hoy wins the title in a RWD BMW, but he's pushed all the way by John Cleland and Andy Rouse, in a FWD Vauxhall and Toyota respectively.

1992 - Tim Harvey wins the title in a RWD BMW, but both Cleland and Hoy, now in a FWD Toyota, have an excellent shot at the title going into the final race of the season - and we all know what happened there.

1993 - BMW go 1-2 in the championship courtesy of Smokin' Jo Winkelhock and Steve "the man's an animal" Soper, but let's not forget that had the Ford Mondeo debuted a few rounds earlier, Paul Radisich would've been in title contention. The Ford was easily the best car by the end of the season. Incidentally, all the other major teams have moved away from BMWs to FWD machinery.

1994 - Gabriele Tarquini in a FWD Alfa demolishes the field. Hell, the first five spots in the final standings are FWD cars. Aside from a mid-season stretch, RWD doesn't get a look in.

1995 - FWD reigns supreme with the top 11 spots in the final standings being FWD cars.

1996 - No one has an answer to Frank Biela in the 4WD Audi. The last season for the works BMW team sees them take 5th and 6th in the points.

1997 - Alain Menu demolishes the field in a FWD Renault. The 4WD Audis are pegged back substantially. Presumably you want this to happen again so the glorious Dynamics Hondas can dominate again.

1998 - 2000 - No RWD cars in the field.

2001 - ABG Motorsport enter a RWD Lexus to embarrassingly limited effect in the Touring Class. Everyone else has FWD machines.

2002 - A pair of BMWs are entered by Edenbridge Racing in the Production Class. Norman Simon battles the FWD Honda of James Kaye for the title and comes up second best. No-one in the Touring Class goes anywhere near RWD.

2003 - Edenbridge Racing enters a sole BMW for Michael Bentwood, who finishes 3rd in a diminished Production Class. Still no RWD in the Touring Class.

2004 - Edenbridge Racing enter a sole S2000 BMW for Justin Keen, who has a best finish of 9th at Brands Hatch, before disappearing from the grid after Oulton Park.

2005 - HPI Racing enter a pair of RWD Lexus to, once again, embarassingly limited effect, even with the diminished field this season.

2006 - A plethora of independents enter RWD Lexus, while Martyn Bell enters a BMW.

2007 - WSR switch to S2000 BMWs and Mat Jackson's family team also runs a BMW. Despite Jackson, Colin Turkington and Tom Onslow-Cole taking six wins between them, the title is between Plato and Giovanardi who are both in FWD cars. Highest placed RWD in the championship is Turks who finishes 5th.

2008 - Giovanardi dominates the year in a FWD Vauxhall. Jackson takes advantage of Plato's unreliable FWD SEAT to finish runner-up in the standings.

2009 - Turkington takes the first RWD title in 16 seasons (or 13 if we're counting Biela's title in the 4WD Audi). Even then, Plato and Giovanardi take him all the way to Brands (the best damn title decider in the three-race-per-round era). There are four RWD machines in the top 10.

2010 - A grand total of two RWD victories all year, both taken by Airwaves BMW. Neither them or WSR are anywhere near title contention.

2011 - FWD cars once again dominate the championship, Rob Collard is the only RWD driver in the top 10. No victories for RWD cars all season. Meanwhile, Rob Austin debuts the RWD NGTC Audi to limited effect bar Rockingham.

2012 - WSR bid farewell to the S2000 BMWs with 5th and 6th in the points for Collard and TOC. Neither make much impact on the overall title. Rob Austin Racing continue to develop their Audis.

2013 - Turkington does an absolute miracle job hauling the underdeveloped NGTC BMW to five race wins, but realistically he was never going to win the title. He is the only RWD driver in the top 10. Rob Austin enjoys a breakout season with that victory at Rockingham, but the Audi is never going to be a top car.

2014 - Turkington is the class of the field, but even then he can't wrap the title up until Brands. Collard takes a victory at Knockhill, and Rob Austin wins again at Rockingham. Still only two RWD cars in the top 10 standings overall.

2015 - WSR win a bunch of races with all three cars, but none of them are in title contention going into Brands. Top 5 in the championship all in FWD machinery. Rob Austin's Audis are now amongst the oldest cars in the field and it shows. Meanwhile, we have the absolute joke that was the Infiniti "works" team.

2016 - 8 drivers go into Brands with a shot at the title. 50/50 split between RWD and FWD and would you look at that, a FWD car wins the title.

So yeah, over 26 seasons, RWD cars have taken the title precisely five times (six if we're including the 4WD Audi of 1996) in the modern era. If RWD was so great, why did it die out during the Super Touring and BTC eras? And now that RWD is finally coming good, you want it pegged back?! Is 20 FWD titles not enough for you?

Hopefully this post finally silences this ridiculous argument.

(Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi all. )

[Alfisti]

Good comprehensive post that has brought back some fond memories 😀

Think I need to hunt out some old season review DVDs for when the nights draw in!

[Jiiiiiiim]

Originally Posted by Londoner

Tell me, do you ever get bored of whinging and trolling?

(Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi all. )

Welcome and what a great first post!

Here's to getting back to rumours and rumblings for next season! Any guesses on the Rockingham 'announcement ?

[FIRE]

Welcome Londoner.

IMO the discussion is pointless because under current rules RWD is allowed and BTCC does a pretty good job in balancing performance.

Although I have no problem if BTCC bans RWD when the new BMW 1-Series is FWD.

[porsche962fan]

Originally Posted by Londoner

So yeah, over 26 seasons, RWD cars have taken the title precisely five times (six if we're including the 4WD Audi of 1996) in the modern era. If RWD was so great, why did it die out during the Super Touring and BTC eras? And now that RWD is finally coming good, you want it pegged back?! Is 20 FWD titles not enough for you?

Hopefully this post finally silences this ridiculous argument.

(Long time lurker, first time poster. Hi all. )

Dude why the heck do you bring the last 20 years when I was talking about the recent events only ? ??

and who else tell us about RWD advantage than Jason Plato himself back a few years ago

If I was in a rear-wheel drive car I’d be smiling wouldn’t I?” said Plato at Snetterton. “But I’m not so I have to fight about it – and it’s not just me, [but] whether I like it or not I’m the one people speak to, I’ve got the voice, people know me, TV cameras interview me so it sounds like I’m the one that’s mouthing off.

“They have to [change the regulations] otherwise they will destroy the formula, because everyone will have to throw their cars in the skip. It’s as simple as that
I’ll leave you with a fact; all of the front-wheel drive cars, their engine, their centre of mass is forward of the centre line of the front wheels. Where do you think the BMW is? 800 millimetres further back than mine – that’s nearly a metre – so the centre of weight of his engine is underneath the front windscreen.

“You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to work out that that is a fundamental advantage. Weight distribution is critical and we can’t improve it because we have to use this great big stuff that we have to use from TOCA.

“Fundamentally, they should never have allowed rear-wheel drive cars in. They were never meant to be allowed in, it was designed for front-wheel drive cars and the problem is that original design is flawed if you allow them in and don’t penalise them

http://buzz.bournemouth.ac.uk/2015/0...ars-advantage/

[BillWiskins]

Even if it required a complete re-write of the rules, right now now I'd love to see Dynamics turn up with a RWD Civic - just to see the response from a particular forum commenter!

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

Dude why the heck do you bring the last 20 years when I was talking about the recent events only ? ??

and who else tell us about RWD advantage than Jason Plato himself back a few years ago



http://buzz.bournemouth.ac.uk/2015/0...ars-advantage/

Dude, if you are only talking about recent events, why bring up a quote from years ago?

Your argument will only have credibility if the situation is the same at the end of the season. Tracks have different characteristics and BoP fluctuates during a season - live with it.

[S griffin]

Oh yes, 2014 when Plato claimed he was leading the 'proper' championship because he had FWD and Colin didn't. So I don't think we can really use him as a credible source

[Akrapovic]

Oh sweet, so Ingram is 2nd in the proper championship? Love it.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Oh sweet, so Ingram is 2nd in the proper championship? Love it.

So we are problem solved then?

FWD Championship leaders Shedden, Ingram, Neal
RWD Championship leaders Sutton, Turkington, Collard

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

So we are problem solved then?

FWD Championship leaders Shedden, Ingram, Neal
RWD Championship leaders Sutton, Turkington, Collard

Solved It's been a while since BTCC had proper class racing When can I enter my TCR car...?

[BobJones]

I see we're all bored and waiting for some proper 2018 rumors.

I'm sure 99.9% of people here understand that different drivetrains should be cherished within touring car racing, that it adds variety to the racing dynamic, that certain tracks will benefit one package over another.

Over the course of the entire season, and not just one round is the true test and that if one powertrain wins, all the losers will cry foul to try and get column inches for their sponsors.

That's motorsport.

Anyway, the good news is Rockingham is this weekend. Onwards.

[Alfisti]

For me the BAD news is Rockingham is this weekend.

Will have to see if I can watch some racing on a phone from Headingleys west stand!

[porsche962fan]

WOW Collard is even more vocal about the Subaru boost than Team Dynamics

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

WOW Collard is even more vocal about the Subaru boost than Team Dynamics

He was also vocal about Honda driving standards.
So as you're promoting Collard as the voice of BTCC reason, then I guess you advocating that Hondas are penalised before Rockingham?
They'll then quit BTCC and enter TCR for 2018 (attempt to keep this a 2018 rumour post)

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

For me the BAD news is Rockingham is this weekend.

Will have to see if I can watch some racing on a phone from Headingleys west stand!

Oh Headingley for the test match or Rockingham for the BTCC. I know where I would rather be and it's Rockingham.

[Sodemo]

Ill be paying a visit I think to this one, its not too far from me, about 25-30 miles.

[B0U170NS]

Originally Posted by Lancsbreaker

Despite the "rumours" in the thread title, I got slagged off last year for suggesting that there was the possibility of a new make joining in (which in the end hit the budget buffers), so I won't comment that I understand there is to be a launch of a 2018 debut at Rockingham.......

So when's this launch being announced then?

[luckn002]

Originally Posted by B0U170NS

So when's this launch being announced then?

Seems to be some kint of hint on Louise Goodman's Twitter though you can't really tell what it is. Looks to me like a rather large black car.

Apparently will be broadcast on ITV tomorrow during the normal coverage.

[BillWiskins]

Originally Posted by luckn002

Seems to be some kint of hint on Louise Goodman's Twitter

Found it. Citroen to BTCC! Didn't see that one coming!

[thlbtcc]

It's Alfa Romeo!

[S griffin]

I just want to be certain that this is highly likely to be happening in 2018