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Old 13 Sep 2017, 15:05 (Ref:3766556)   #151
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"Squishy" comes from Common Law, goes along with "stinky." The authenticity issue could be a whole different thread. However, as a paying spectator, attending an event where real, authentic, classic cars are advertised as being what you see, and having a number of repops running around sure does make the credibility of the event questionable. Maybe Lord March needs to revisit his entry standards to make sure attendees are getting their monies worth!
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 15:55 (Ref:3766575)   #152
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One does have to query the authenticity of some of the cars being raced.

For example, much was made by the commentators and the two drivers that the Huff/Meins A40 had been a road going car until just two weeks before the event.

I cannot recall any of the A40 that were raced, even in the 60s' Special Saloons, that would have been able to keep up with that car.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 16:08 (Ref:3766579)   #153
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The St Mary's Trophy cars are expected to put on a show, and if that means they need to be developed, improved or whatever, so be it. If it makes for better spectator entertainment, Goodwood are happy. All IMHO, of course.....
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 16:38 (Ref:3766586)   #154
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The St Mary's Trophy cars are expected to put on a show, and if that means they need to be developed, improved or whatever, so be it. If it makes for better spectator entertainment, Goodwood are happy. All IMHO, of course.....
I was told a competitive engine for an A40 would set you back £18,000, which is a little more than a complete car would have cost new.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 18:33 (Ref:3766623)   #155
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Mike, where do you draw the line on what defines "developed, improved, or whatever?" What are the standards? Provenance? How much money you throw at your car? When you start charging money, representing something as being genuine, authentic, et al, and it's not , spectators get squishy. The Goodwood Revival sets the standard for vintage events, hopefully that will never be compromised.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 20:05 (Ref:3766640)   #156
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Not sure if agree there Owr. IMO the majority of spectators want to see good racing between cars that evoke the period and don't give a fig for authenticity.

After all, the whole premise of the Revival is some indeterminate "olden times." Spitfires mingling with sixties racers, de-mob suits next to mini skirts. The purist knows A40s never raced at the sharp end, the spectator neither knows nor cares as long as he is entertained. And TBH the racing *is* entertaining.

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Old 13 Sep 2017, 20:46 (Ref:3766648)   #157
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MM; I will not dispute the entertainment value of The Revival, and if that's the main objective, then I say "go for it!" But, "don't give a fig" or "neither knows nor cares," I'd like to think their interest level is a little better than that, otherwise why bother and attend?
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 20:55 (Ref:3766649)   #158
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My last pre-Revival visit to Goodwood would have been in the early sixties, and I no longer have the clothes I wore, and even if I did there is no way I could get into them. I almost certainly cycled from North London to the circuit, and I no longer have the bike.

What am I to do if I want to attend next year and remain authentic?
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 20:59 (Ref:3766651)   #159
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My last pre-Revival visit to Goodwood would have been in the early sixties, and I no longer have the clothes I wore, and even if I did there is no way I could get into them. I almost certainly cycled from North London to the circuit, and I no longer have the bike.

What am I to do if I want to attend next year and remain authentic?
The old folks home may have given your room away by now, Bob!

There have been a lot of changes lately - the Press tent now seems to be run by the Pony Club. Oh, & you might need to get another bike as there's no longer parking facilities for the press.
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Old 13 Sep 2017, 21:02 (Ref:3766652)   #160
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MM; I will not dispute the entertainment value of The Revival, and if that's the main objective, then I say "go for it!" But, "don't give a fig" or "neither knows nor cares," I'd like to think their interest level is a little better than that, otherwise why bother and attend?
Because they enjoy the anachronism that is Goodwood.

I have a number of friends who go who genuinely do not know about Appendix K, others who suspend belief for the time they are there.

It doesn't float my boat, but 100,000 people say I'm wrong. I bet if you added up all the historic racing "enthusiasts", racers and spectators from every "historic" race meeting outside the Silverstone Classic the Revival would outnumber them. Clearly the mass market doesn't worry about historical accuracy.

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Old 13 Sep 2017, 21:41 (Ref:3766656)   #161
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The old folks home may have given your room away by now, Bob!

There have been a lot of changes lately - the Press tent now seems to be run by the Pony Club. Oh, & you might need to get another bike as there's no longer parking facilities for the press.
In the course of a season I visit a lot of media centres around the UK, and most of the time its just us few old timers moaning about the crap racing. The Revival press centre by contrast, is exciting, incredibly busy, and I love being part of what is a truly international gathering.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 04:45 (Ref:3766699)   #162
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Because they enjoy the anachronism that is Goodwood.

I have a number of friends who go who genuinely do not know about Appendix K, others who suspend belief for the time they are there.

It doesn't float my boat, but 100,000 people say I'm wrong. I bet if you added up all the historic racing "enthusiasts", racers and spectators from every "historic" race meeting outside the Silverstone Classic the Revival would outnumber them. Clearly the mass market doesn't worry about historical accuracy.
owrforever- the above is pretty much how I would have replied to your earlier post! Sorry I'm a bit late to the party but am at Spa for this weekends big meeting.

There are one or two races at Goodwood Revival and Members Meeting where the entertainment takes priority over period authenticity. In most races the cars will have FIA HTP papers and be the same cars I see at many other European meetings. But in for example, The St Mary's Trophy, the cars will likely not have FIA papers and will run (for example) disc brakes instead of drums, bigger discs and calipers than original, more sophisticated suspension, etc..... It makes for great entertainment, especially if something 'unlikely' can fight the expected front runners!
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 07:43 (Ref:3766742)   #163
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Nostalgia about a race meeting whose USP is nostalgia? That is a bit meta for me.

New for 2018 'The Revival Revival- experience the thrills and spills of 90s retro ' . Cue appearance of ersatz Spice Girls and Peugeot 405s ..
Someone described the Revival as:
Goodwood is recreating history, this year's event will be exactly the same as last year's....
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 08:07 (Ref:3766747)   #164
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Someone described the Revival as:
Goodwood is recreating history, this year's event will be exactly the same as last year's....
Well, the Revival has been running for longer than Goodwood's in-period racing, so I guess it's time to start all over again.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 12:05 (Ref:3766804)   #165
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Someone described the Revival as:
Goodwood is recreating history, this year's event will be exactly the same as last year's....
I wouldn't describe The Revival as a historical recreation, more of a pastiche (much like some of the competing cars). This year, my first visit, I saw costumes ranging from Victorian explorer complete with pith helmet to 1960's rocker with studded leather jacket. According to a friend who walked all the way round the circuit, the further from the paddock, the less tweed is to be seen which tends to confirm the view that many of those attending might also be found sipping champers in boater and striped blazer at Henley and in top hat and tails at Ascot.

It's a hugely enjoyable experience but for the cost of a day (never mind a weekend) at Goodwood I could attend a season ot two of historic motor sport at Cadwell, Mallory, Oulton or Donington.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 14:26 (Ref:3766824)   #166
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That is the catch with Goodwood sadly.

The expense for me, and the travelling there simply rules it out as a viable option.

And they don't seem to care, why would they when thousands seem happy to roll over hundreds of pounds a year to an already filthy rich man.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 14:48 (Ref:3766829)   #167
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Did you watch the youtube coverage?
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 15:34 (Ref:3766836)   #168
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And they don't seem to care, why would they when thousands seem happy to roll over hundreds of pounds a year to an already filthy rich man.
That really is going a bit too far, and is possibly way off base.

The Marchs have ploughed huge sums into the Goodwood estate, and as a result of their investment into it, they have provided the country with possibly one of the best horse racing tracks and best motor sport facilities. And Goodwood doesn't claim to be a charity.

Furthermore, the Marchs have remained tax residents in the UK, so therefore helping to maintain public services through their taxation. And Goodwood Estate, which actually owns both the circuit and track, is also based in the UK, so also paying into the Revenues coffers.

And that's, in a small measure, to yours and mine benefit.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 16:24 (Ref:3766849)   #169
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Putting on the Revival can't be cheap so I definitely don't begrudge Lord March the income. However, the hospitality packages are horrendously expensive for true enthusiasts (£696 per head per day in The Mess). Perhaps that's intentional, cater for corporate guests and leave the hoi polloi out in the rain. Perhaps, at least for a year or two, I'll continue to watch the action at home on YouTube.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 17:04 (Ref:3766851)   #170
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That really is going a bit too far, and is possibly way off base.

The Marchs have ploughed huge sums into the Goodwood estate, and as a result of their investment into it, they have provided the country with possibly one of the best horse racing tracks and best motor sport facilities. And Goodwood doesn't claim to be a charity.

Furthermore, the Marchs have remained tax residents in the UK, so therefore helping to maintain public services through their taxation. And Goodwood Estate, which actually owns both the circuit and track, is also based in the UK, so also paying into the Revenues coffers.

And that's, in a small measure, to yours and mine benefit.
I would agree with all that. If you had seen the TV programme about the Goodwood Estate a year or two ago you would know that it was not exactly a goldmine.

Sadly, Lord March's father passed away shortly before Revival, so no doubt the HMRC parasites will have their sticky fingers in there too.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 18:06 (Ref:3766879)   #171
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I watched the TV coverage and really enjoyed it. A friend went on Friday or Saturday and said it is fantastic. Goodwood and Silverstone are attracting more and more people, spectators, sponsors, racers, making happy and wealthy organizers. I can't see anything wrong with that bearing in mind I can't afford it. The marketing recipe is good, it will go increasing creating a different world of historic racing.

As to Goodwood, we could fill a nice grid borrowing only the pace cars you have there!
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 18:37 (Ref:3766885)   #172
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I would add that Goodwood Estate employs an average (obviously the number fluctuates because of the events) of 850 people per week, and their wage bill comes to something like £25 million per annum.

All the income revenue for all the events, the hotel and other assets are paid to Goodwood Estates, and the vast majority of the annual profits are ploughed back into the business. A small amount is distributed as a dividends to the shareholders, but it should be noted that Lord March actually made a loan to the company in 2016, which is yet to be repaid, which far exceeded the total dividend that was paid.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 18:51 (Ref:3766886)   #173
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I would add that Goodwood Estate employs an average (obviously the number fluctuates because of the events) of 850 people per week, and their wage bill comes to something like £25 million per annum.

All the income revenue for all the events, the hotel and other assets are paid to Goodwood Estates, and the vast majority of the annual profits are ploughed back into the business. A small amount is distributed as a dividends to the shareholders, but it should be noted that Lord March actually made a loan to the company in 2016, which is yet to be repaid, which far exceeded the total dividend that was paid.
In addition to the employment one shouldn't forget the volume of business brought into the area, local hotels, restaurants, shops etc all doing well off the back of the events, not to mention money collected at the events for charity.
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Old 14 Sep 2017, 19:21 (Ref:3766893)   #174
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>>>no doubt the HMRC parasites will have their sticky fingers in there too.

Strange choice of words here given the tax revenue is used to fund our hospitals, roads and public services, and we're praising the activities of the Estate in generating profits and therefore tax income.

It's well documented that I don't "appreciate" the Revival, but that's just me. There's loads more who do, and it gives traders, racers and spectators a great few days.

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Old 14 Sep 2017, 20:14 (Ref:3766904)   #175
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Going back to the on track action, I've been told by a Revival entrant and driver that licence penalty points were handed out to at least two drivers involved in on-track incidents. One was given 6 points, but apparently on appeal this was reduced to 3......

I've also been told that two cars were put to the back of the grid after their qualifying sessions for technical irregularities, and that scrutineering was very strict for cars running with HTP papers. That doesn't of course include St Mary's Trophy cars!
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