FIA: "Sauber C23 is not Ferrari copy"(merge)

[avsfan733]

the way i understand the rules, a team merely has to build their own chassis. and there are differences between the trwo cars, not to mention none of us can see the actual chassis. the rules make all the cars look very similar its just more noticeable if your looking for it

[Super Tourer]

Originally posted by corkholio
On another note, if Minardi does decide to run the old Arrows as the PS04, should they be thrown out because it is clear that they didn't design or build their own chassis?

No, as I understand it they wouldn't. The rules relate to the ownership of the intellectual property rights to the chassis you compete with. This is under the terms of the Concorde Agreement, not the FIA Technical Regs.

When PS bought the Arrow's he effectively bought a large part of the team (parts/moulds/raw materials, etc) so presumably he bought the property rights along with them, which would enable them to enter the cars as his chassis, regardless of who built them.

[Try Hard]

Ok, I'm going to wade in here with some more observations on the cars.
bear in mind this is what i have studided based on the two pictures in Th Monsters post on page 2.

Firstly, there ARE differences over the nose section, the adjustable flaps have a less aggresive kink on their trailing edge, and the actual nose itself looks wider (as i have stated previously)
secondly the sidepods are different, the sauber seems to have generally more of a slope on it than on the ferrari, only really noticeable if you look closely at the sponsership decals. Plus the 'pods are noticeabley lower on the sauber (something i would expect considering the advancement of size reduction year on year).
Thirdly, don't forget about the new regulation for this year. This will have an effect on a teams car, and i don't think sauber would be foolish enough to run a 2003 car without even testing it in a 'tunnel to trial the regs.

The way I see it is this. The cars ARE different, but the CONCEPT is the SAME. Yes certain details are very similar, but then again this could have also been said about the McLaren "clones" in '99 (stewart etc), although not to as much of an extreme as this.

I see no-problem with this though, and it probably does make sense for all bridgestone runners to go single keel, due to the camber characteristics of the tyres.

The only place i see that a problem could arise is to the general public, who at first glance the cars will appear exactly the same, and may be put off by having "4 ferraris on the grid", and all the so-called politics this entails.

I myself am not a Ferrari fan, I belive they quite often have a bit more leaniency with the FIA than they perhaps should (although i wouldn't go as far as the Ferrari International Aid that some people call the FIA), but with this, I don't see that they have done anything wrong. If anything it is just a case of two teams colaberating together to a common goal.

Of course this may all just be sircumstancal, after all we haven't seen the 655 yet....

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Try Hard

Of course this may all just be sircumstancal, after all we haven't seen the 655 yet....

Ferrari aren't going to give Sauber the plans to the 655, Sauber can have them in 2005 when they (Ferrari) have had full use of Saubers new wind tunnel

[climb]

In this case it would be real hard to state who gave the other something of their own

[Try Hard]

I ment it as in a way of we probably will have two different ferruber's or sarrari's (J/king j/king) on the grid in melbourne, so then we won't have an copying problems..

Ed

[shiny side up!]

Originally posted by Dick Spanner
Just to fan the flames a little, Ferrari will apparently be paying for Luca Badoer to test drive the third Sauber during Friday practice.

http://uk.sports.yahoo.com/040123/65/ek5x0.html

Watch out, it's going to get even more hairy in here...

[Redblurr]

Originally posted by Damon
No GT_R, but if say a Ferrari was leading and coming up to lap a Sauber

never gonna happen - good engine in the Sauber

[Mr V]

*EDIT*


Not even close to the topic V-Man



Wrex

[chrisrb2002]

Done a little more playing about in photoshop. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chrisrb/ferr01.jpg quite striking dont you think..

[John Turner]

Have to ageee with Peter Mallett and Wrex on this one. Does it really matter that this year's Sauber appears to copy last year's Ferrari? As Peter says if it breaches the rules maybe it's the rules that should be changed. The complaining teams should be applying themselves to producing Ferrari beating designs than wasting their intellects on this issue. From our point of view it could mean another competitive team at the front. Good!

[Hazza]

Originally posted by Try Hard
[B]Firstly, there ARE differences over the nose section, the adjustable flaps have a less aggresive kink on their trailing edge...[B]

Of course, you *would* improve it after a years worth of "testing"...

[Jordi]

You overdid yourself there, chrisrb2002!

[dretceterini]

The tip of the nose of the Sauber looks a bit wider to me than on the Ferrari

[Mr V]

Originally posted by dretceterini
The tip of the nose of the Sauber looks a bit wider to me than on the Ferrari

Did to me too, but that maybe an "optical illusion" due to the paint work?

[krt917]

They do look uncannily similar, but in a time when the idea of customer cars has been discussed, does it really matter? Perhaps the rules should be changed. If it creates more competition then that's good.

What would be a problem is if the Sauber's were used to impinge the progress of Ferrari's rivals. I don't believe that Peter Sauber is that weak and dishonourable. Some of the criticisms of his drivers, such as at Monza last year, I think have been the result of people LOOKING for a link. In Italy, Heinz didn't really hold Monotoya up that much and if it had been any other car, people would have been concentrating more on the fact that Monty then decided to give up on his pursuit than the alleged spectre of Ferrari having a 'second' team.

Anyway, many on this forum want to see Fisi in a Ferrari, so you should be pleased; this could be as close as he gets!!

[Hazza]

Yes, but you see, we only thought that after the quote

I thought it was Webber in the Jaguar

I mean, realy?

[nippy]

No not really its a sauber come ferrari. Is design swaping illeagal or is it me. Refer to Monza 2003 which back-marker held up Montoya for half a lap as schumcher pulled away and also note what car he was driving. To give you a quick hand it was H.H. Frentzen in a Sauber it looks like Ferrari are up to something.

Your Thoughts??

[darcym]

People said this last year, and well the sauber was nothing compared to the ferrari.

Parts are going to look similar because certain parts are shared on a customer basis such as engines


People will read more into this than there I think.

[Peter Mallett]

Have a look here:

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=49086

Or here

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...threadid=49104

[Super Tourer]

As Peter said, this has been debated in several threads - so merged with the others....

[Logrence]

Originally posted by chrisrb2002
Done a little more playing about in photoshop. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/chrisrb/ferr01.jpg quite striking dont you think..

So that's what it is! has anyone seen the french film 'taxi?

They run one of the Ferraris under water and the pain job comes off and presto-changeo they have a new Sauber!

[rpolinski]

Originally posted by Logrence
So that's what it is! has anyone seen the french film 'taxi?

They run one of the Ferraris under water and the pain job comes off and presto-changeo they have a new Sauber!

LOL
But it would be the other way around. Half way throught the Aus GP it starts to rain leaving a blue/green puddle in the middle of the track and 4 Ferraris running around.