Group B MG Metro 6R4 History

[RGM]

I don't know which one of Fernandos cars was DAM4100 kitted, it was after my time.

All I know as we discussed earlier is that Fernando had 2 metros, the Q 979(?) plated car, which was the ropiest old dog of a metro I have ever seen..... and the Middle East (Ali characan?) Rothmans C727DYL(?).

I am guessing that perhaps Fernando would have sold the Q plate car and kept the Rothmans car, fitting that with the DAM kit, but I am only guessing.

David Appleby would know more than me about that.

As a matter of interest, how is it that you have the photo of sams metro that was hanging in reception at NES.... did you attend the bankruptcy auction? Don't suppose you bought the contents of my old room too did you...?

Mike.

[MG Rover Sport]

Good morning Mike,

The two 'pukka' Metro 6R4s that Fernando had were the red ex-Cyril Bolton Presspart sponsored Q979 GFR, and the ex-Ali Karacan Rothmans sponsored C727 DYL. This is pretty much exactly what you said, but I've basically just agreed with you and filled in the missing numbers of the Q registration number.

As I'm sure you know, the Rothmans car was originally converted to left hand drive by David Richards Autosport, and I think won the 1986 or 1987 Turkish National Rally Championship in Karacan's hands.

I'll come back to Fernando's DAM 4100 / Fiesta Si later, once I have checked a couple of things. In the meantime, here are a couple of photos (lifted from Fernando's own site) of it for those who haven't seen it before...





...of which more later.

Regarding the photo that used to hang in Nelson Engines reception. I didn't attend the auction more's the pity, but I did acquire it off a dealer who bought quite a bit from the auction I gather. Strangely, this was the last item he had left when I heard about him - but I'd have thought a large framed print would have been one of the first to go? I might try and take a photo of it over the weekend - too big to scan as you know.

Here's the link to the Norwegian story we have been debating about on previous pages regarding C84 RBD > http://www.rallycrossradio.no/index....d=311&Itemid=2

There's not a great deal on the 6R4, but see what you make of it all, and I'd be interested in your thoughts which exact car they're showing.

[RGM]

I'll dig deeper with regard to the article about the metro in the norwegian link... but initial impressions of that car are telling me the following:

1. standard clubmand fuel filler cap
2. Lexan bulkhead between the engine bay and cockpit...

So I am going to guess that the car in the pictures is not C84RBD, but infact the clubman car that I assembled, winner of the dynamite hillclimb. It would have the rothmans engine and ECU, which actually had a bit of tape on it that said "Rothmans"

I'll dig deeper, but thats what I am going with so far.

The real C84RBD is still yellow and has the ugly hillclimb/rallycross wings on it.
Rothmans car in the article is a club car.

Mike.

[MG Rover Sport]

I think that's pretty much the conclusion I'd come to Mike. I initially thought that it was indeed C84 RBD because it was stated as being ex-Iversen, and was shown in Rothmans livery. I suppose that shows you cannot assume anything.

Your recent comments about the condition of that car, and your expertise in spotting the fuel filler and rear screen, also back up the thought that is more than likely Iversen's yellow rallycross car.

Do you know of Jan Hroar Bjørklund that the article mentions, or have you heard of the museum in Bærum before?

[RGM]

I hadn't heard of the museum in Baerum before, I will look into it and if it exists I'll make a day trip of it when the snow melts and point my Norton in that direction.
I say "if it exists" because norwegians refer to any collection of desireable stored cars private or otherwise as "a museum". Iveesens collection was also referred to as a museum!

Fernandos 4100 Fiesta:
By pure chance i called my brother this evening (we worked together at Nelsons, in Tenerife and at Glomma Papp Racing) when I asked if he knew which metro Fernando fitted the 4100 kit to and fordified, he replied by saying that he knows, he fitted the kit! Flew to Tenerife and fitted it at Fernandos Ford dealership in Santa Cruz. How about that, I had no idea! The kit was fitted to C727DYL (rothmans) He doesn't know who bought Q979GFR, but thinks it was Alaymi Alonso (spelling).
We put our heads together and think that Lorenzo Roady owned D750PDM, as far as we know that was last seen (1994ish) on Spanish plates and stored under his hotel in Puerto de la Cruz Tenerife.

Mike

[MG Rover Sport]

Thanks for offering to go and check out the 'museum' one day, Mike - most appreciated and I suppose one way to get to the bottom of all the mystery.

Many thanks also for your brother's side of the story regarding Fernando's DAM 4100 / Fiesta Si. I'm not doubting him one little bit, but it just means I have two versions as I was told something completely different by David Appleby on one of my many visits to his workshop in the mid / late 1990s.

It all starts off a few years earlier though, talking about Sam's car(s)...

I had a conversation with Sam at Donington in 1988 and he confirmed that his car was originally Austin Rover chairman Harold Musgrove's demonstrator (toy?), and a Gaydon test car which Sam acquired in April 1987.

It rallied with Reg No B697 CMG and D999 VFW and he only contested three events in the car (listed on previous pages as 1987 Azimghur, Epynt and Mewla) but then following the crash on the latter event it was reshelled into a bodyshell from the ex-works temperature test car over the winter of 1987/1988. Sam apparently acquired the bodyshell from Cyril Bolton in late 1987.

The reshelled car debuted on the 1988 John Price Rallying Longleat Stages with Reg No E264 AAM and Sam continued to use it right up until he hired it to Liam McCarthy in 1992.

The original damaged 1987 Mewla bodyshell was apparently later repaired, and sold to Fernando Capdevilla as a spare in 1991. It was this shell that David Appleby told me that Fernando's DAM 4100 / Fiesta Si was built upon.

Like I said, I'm not doubting your brother's story at all, but just thought I'd tell you what I was told. I would certainly be interested in what you and/or your brother thinks of all of the above?

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by RGM

He doesn't know who bought Q979 GFR, but thinks it was Alaymi Alonso (spelling).

Aythami Alonso, the owner of the Race of Champions track? I knew he owned an ex-Marc Thelen rallycross car and a spare bodyshell, but not the possible owner of the ex-Cyril Bolton car?

Originally Posted by RGM

We put our heads together and think that Lorenzo Roady owned D750PDM, as far as we know that was last seen (1994ish) on Spanish plates and stored under his hotel in Puerto de la Cruz Tenerife.

Do you mean Lorenzo Garcia? If you do, he owned the ex-Geoff Underhill car, Q367 PDE. I have never heard of Lorenzo Roady?

D750 PDM went from Clive Faine to Luis Riveria in the Canary Islands, and then Santiago 'Santi' Zuluaga in Spain, Chris Le Bonniec in Jersey, John Lay in UK, then John Melling rebuilt it in Computervision livery and did various Slowly Sideways events up until last year. It was then sold to an Italian who had a small but quite destructive engine fire - see the following link for a photo of the aftermath...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fialcia...7622585911308/

[RGM]

Yes, quite correct about Aythami having the rallycross car, D750PDM wasn't the one Lorenzo used, Lorenzos car was on a Q plate. Lorenzos full surname Roady-Garcia. Garcia is his mothers maiden name, and sometimes he used both names, sometimes one or the other. Garcia is apparently a common name like smith in the uk.

Fernando only had two metros, but the Q plate car was on its last legs when i saw it last in 1993-4. It's not unlikely that following the engine blow of Q979GFR that the car was shipped to the uk and reshelled. Possibly by DAM, using Nelsons original shell?

I am now trying hard to remember what we did after the Epynt crash and if I might have forgotten whether we repaired or reshelled sams car!
You certainly have me thinking now anyway!
I recall going with Sam to pick up some parts from Cyril Bolton for the rebuild after the Epynt crash, but did we pick up the temerature test shell too?
I know we got loads of wierd parts, especially remember some honeycomb inner front wings, titanium covered running boards, ground effect skirts and a very deep double length reinforced neoprene front bib. But did we pick up a shell?
I think we might have..... Having a hazy flashback about waterpipes going into the cockpit... let me mull it over.
But for the time being David your version whilst viable, also creates questions:
Jason (my brother) was able to give me some facts that you maybe can weave into the story.
Fernandos Q979 blew the engine at the RoC track, Jason and I were there, stripped the engine afterwards and shipped it to Dave Midgely former NES for rebuild (at this point NES was bankrupt).
Midgley rebuilt the engine out of drum engines workshops in Laycock. Jason remembers paying Drum Engines 100 quid a week to rent workshop floor space, where he refitted the repaired/blown engine.
Jason then came back to Norway where he and I were living at the time.
Another mate of ours Craig Johnson took Q979 to Santander on the ferry, where Fernando met him and collected the car.

Meanwhile, I flew to sweden, checked out the Wiklund rallycross car, flew to Holland to Hans Te Pas, Fernando bought the C727DYL Karacan Rothmans car, Pauli Silvanoinen and myself trailered it to Paxti Arbelaiz house, Silvanionen went back to Holland, and I took C727DYL to Oviedo for the publicity event, using Paxtis service barge and mechanic.
C727DYL was shipped to Tenerife following that event.
So i don't know when in time the Q979GFR car could have been reshelled into Sams original "epynt crash" shell.
Neither do we know where Q979GFR is now, or who has it?
Jason is adamant however that he flew down and finished off the fitting/modification of the 4100 Fiesta kit to the Rothmans car C727DYL he then drove it from Tenerife to Blandy Auto in Gran Canaria, when he switched off the cliff humphries rally cross engine it rattled, flywheel had come loose, so Jason pulled an all nighter, single handedly removing the gearbox, lapping the flywheel to crank and tightening it up again in time for the event the next day.

Its possible that Q979 later also had a 4100 kit fitted and was reshelled by Appleby, but you'll have to ask him about that.

[KA]

Originally Posted by RGM

Slightly off-topic, but the Iversens were clearly keen on adding a bit of downforce to their cars...




Even more off-topic, is that a Texaco RS500 behind the Metro...?
(and I apologise for cluttering a Metro thread up with F*rds)

Back on-topic-this is great stuff- way beyond anything I've ever known on the subject, and pics of individual cars I'd never seen before

I can't contribute much in the way of information, but I'll read with interest, and throw in the odd bit where I can, until I get round to scanning some of my rallycross 6R4 pics

Meanwhile, a pic of Cyril Bolton's 'Presspart' car on the '86 Manx
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiend...7623103164915/

[bigears]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

I've had a look through the 1988 pages, and here are a few more details to fill in your gaps - mainly individual sponsors. As the race was actually 'on the back of' the 1988 Esso Metro Superchallenge - although not actually part of it - I see little point in mentioning Esso or Dunlop as an individual sponsor. Likewise, quite a few cars had Radio WM stickers on them for the weekend, so I won't bother with that either...

#1 SLIGHTS :
Direct Windows / SRS (Slights Rally Sport) / Duckhams QXR

#2 BARTON :
No major sponsors!

#3 PRICE :
John Price Rallying / Zenith Motorsport / Duckhams QXR / Ordinance

#4 BEVERIDGE :
QCR Motors / Inmont

#5 SHARAM :
Gloplas / Duckhams QXR

#6 HARRIS :
Auto Plas / SMAC Group / Carrera Contracts

#7 NELSON :
Nelson Engine Services

#8 LAWRENCE :
Wednesbusy Motors / Freight Rover / Autoglass

#9 BENNETT :
MJ Fews Ltd Land Rover Sales

#10 HOLMES :
Sharp Centre Sutton Coldfield / Central / Enterprise Racing / RH Auto Sales / LK Car Auctions

#11 HUTTON :
Price Check Rallying

#12 FAINE :
No major sponsors!

#14 DONALDSON :
No major sponsors!

#15 DORANS :
Elf Oils / KJ Dorans & Co / Glasurit / Burgess Motor Services

#16 POND :
Metro Gets You Going (Rover marketing slogan of the time) / British Car Rental / London Rally Centre

#17 HARVEY :
Istel / Langer Park Service Station

#18 SUTHERLAND :
RFM Sunroofs / The Sea-Band / Riverframe Motorsport

#19 TURNER :
No major sponsors!

#20 MIDWINTER :
Frames Window Copmpany / Solaglass / Fastfix Fittings

#21 OATES :
John Price Rallying / Zenith Motorsport / Duckhams QXR / Ordinance

#22 UNDERHILL :
No major sponsors!

#23 BANYARD :
No major sponsors!

#24 FRASER-KERR :
Unsure as never appeared as far as I can recall?

#25 CORRY :
Infolink Intouch Tutorials

#26 LEWIS :
Ellard Sign & Design / Stakis / Trevor Lewis Racing / Swift Motorsport / Showplace / Neiman

I hope that helps 'bigears' and I'll have a look through the 1989 pages and see if I can fill in any similar gaps for you. I'll also try and get a few photos scanned in.

Thank you for your time to fill in some part of my research! Forgive me for asking, what format are you using with the ____/___/___

Is it like this team name/sponsor/sponsor? or sponsor/team name/sponsor?

[bigears]

Some nice scans from my website:

[MG Rover Sport]

An interesting and quite indepth post there Mike, and as there is quite a bit to go through, I'll leave my response till this evening if that's OK?

No worries about contributions of information KA - you always come up with some amazing image finds from the www, so I am more than happy to wait for your next 'treasure'!

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by bigears

Thank you for your time to fill in some part of my research! Forgive me for asking, what format are you using with the ____/___/___

Is it like this team name/sponsor/sponsor? or sponsor/team name/sponsor?

Simply a list of assorted sponsors of each car based on looking through some photos. I guess the Entry Name will be in the programmes, which I assume you have?

Talking of photos, what about the images I posted above for you, any use?

[bigears]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Simply a list of assorted sponsors of each car based on looking through some photos. I guess the Entry Name will be in the programmes, which I assume you have?

Talking of photos, what about the images I posted above for you, any use?

I apologise for not telling you about the photos. It is because this thread was moving so quickly and I missed the last page with the BSP photos in them. They are superb and they did help me a lot.

I only got two photos from the 1989 race (I got them from the 6R4.net forums, are you Captain Chaos by any chance? It is because you got the same avatar as him!) and I wondering if you got anything from the 1989 event especially the results and photos?

I got a few more requests but I will do one thing at a time.

Thank you once again!

[MG Rover Sport]

Yes I am indeed Captain Chaos from 6R4.net - I've been rumbled!

I don't have the full results for the 1989 race I'm afraid. I think I sent you all the results I had previously, but I will be able to upload some photos and supply you with some sponsors details if that would help.

Sorry it has taken so long to get it all sorted for you though. Glad that they were of use to you. If you need anything else specific, just ask and I'll try and help.

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by RGM

Yes, quite correct about Aythami having the rallycross car, D750PDM wasn't the one Lorenzo used, Lorenzos car was on a Q plate. Lorenzos full surname Roady-Garcia. Garcia is his mothers maiden name, and sometimes he used both names, sometimes one or the other. Garcia is apparently a common name like smith in the uk.

Lorenzo's car was UK reg'd Q367 PDE and was the ex-Geoff Underhill blue / white car, which Geoff used in rallying and at the 1988 Birmingham Superprix...



This is the same car which is currently For Sale by Hannu Ruohorinne in Finland...

[bigears]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Yes I am indeed Captain Chaos from 6R4.net - I've been rumbled!

I don't have the full results for the 1989 race I'm afraid. I think I sent you all the results I had previously, but I will be able to upload some photos and supply you with some sponsors details if that would help.

Sorry it has taken so long to get it all sorted for you though. Glad that they were of use to you. If you need anything else specific, just ask and I'll try and help.

Ah, nice to see you over here. I remember you supplied me the 1988 results a while ago. It did help me a lot. I will try to use my contacts and find the excusive 1989 results. I am still very keen to get my hands on the video footage from the races as I recall someone saying that there was some onboard cameras in some cars in the 1989 race. I don't know if they are out there somewhere.

No worries about the delay, I am so pleased with your efforts with the photos. They do help me a lot with the research.

[RGM]

C84RBD

David, do you know the history of this car from the first rally it competed on until it's trip to Norway when bratlie bought it?

All I have read is that both Jimmy McRae and Billy Coleman rallied metros with that reg. nr and I also found a picture of Brian Bell with that number.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiend...7623103164915/

So presumably the car went from rothmans livery to Brian bells livery and then back to Rothmans livery before it came to Norway....

Spoke to the new owner again yesterday..... he is interested in buying that 3,0 engine that is for sale on ebay for 29k.... rebuilt by 6R4.com (Rowlance LTD?)
Odd thing is that according to the ebay advert, it is an international engine, with WL18 cams, springs and retainers..... WL18 if I remember correctly were the standard clubman cams and valvegear.... and I wouldn't rev those MG metro Turbo valve springs to international RPM's!

Anyway, I am rambling.... if anyone knows about the timeline for C84RBD I would love to know...

Mike

[MG Rover Sport]

Originally Posted by bigears

Ah, nice to see you over here. I remember you supplied me the 1988 results a while ago. It did help me a lot. I will try to use my contacts and find the excusive 1989 results. I am still very keen to get my hands on the video footage from the races as I recall someone saying that there was some onboard cameras in some cars in the 1989 race. I don't know if they are out there somewhere.

No worries about the delay, I am so pleased with your efforts with the photos. They do help me a lot with the research.

Thanks for the warm greetings 'bigears' - I'll do the same with the 1989 event when I get a chance, which won't be till at least next week now. Hope you are happy to wait for it all.

[MG Rover Sport]

Mike,

There were actually three cars that carried the Reg No C84 RBD, believe it or not...

Firstly, there was the Rothmans sponsored rally car used by Jimmy McRae on the 1986 National Breakdown Rally. It was then converted to left hand drive, and used by Billy Coleman on the 1986 Manx International Rally and Cork 20 International Rally, before being sold to Norway for rallycross, ice-racing and hillclimbing in January 1987.

When it was sold by DRA, they removed the actual VIN No and Reg No and fitted a DRA VIN No to the car as they knew that it didn't really need a pukka VIN No and Reg No for rallycross, ice-racing and hillclimbing!

Secondly, the VIN No and Reg No were fitted to a standard right hand drive Clubman by DRA before it was sold to Brian Bell for rallying, and then to Aiden Creegan for rallycross. He crashed it at the 1988 Rallycross GP and the car was then reshelled and rallycrossed by Aiden Creegan, Norman Kittle, John Haffey, John Moloney and more recently Lawrence Gibson.

Thirdly, the identical Reg No C84 RBD was also seen on a left hand drive Clubman rally car that DRA built for Finnish rally driver Mika Arpianen, and it rolled heavily on the 1986 1000 Lakes Rally.

You know where the first car is, I'm pretty sure that Lawrence still has the second, but I don't know what happened to the third. I hope that answers your query?

Looking back at one of your posts on the previous page Mike, the name Paxti Arbelaiz crops up. He was going to be the next individual I was going to ask you about, along with Iñaki Arbelaiz (which I assume was Patxi's son?) and Javier Izagirre? What do you know of their car or cars?

[RGM]

Interesting about C84RBD, I wonder who has the registration papers (are they still called V5?).

Paxti Arbelaiz, I don't know much about Paxti, other than I have been to his house and it is huge! His neighbour was the famous spanish golfer Jose Maria Olazabel (spelling?), his metro was heavily modified for off-road rallying, his garage was full of motorsport toys, mainly of the off-road variety.
His son was using a Nissan GTiR at the time, and as I was involved with Nissan Motorsports Sweden at the time, I got a very low ratio GTiR gearbox made for Paxti, which would top out at 100mph on standard wheels (they were using HUGE diameter Paris-Dakar style tyres).

Sorry to say that is all I know about Paxti...

Mike.

ps... if the ebay auction goes our way A20ROV will be getting a rover V8 with the pukka sump that does not require modifying the rear chassis rail....

[MG Rover Sport]

Good morning Mike.

My money is on the second car having the V5 and Vin No, as that originally had it when Brian Bell was rallying it, and indeed I believe Lawrence Gibson still has that Reg No on the back of one of his rallycross cars.

Cheers for the info about Patxi. No worries you don't know much about his cars, I'll have to try elsewhere then.

Interesting about A20 ROV - good luck. I could do with knowing a little more about that car when you get a moment, ie VIN No, 6R4 No, date acquired, acquire from, condition when acquired, past history, plans, etc - if you would prefer to do it by email, then that's fine by me. A few photos would alo be nice if you have any.

[KA]

Originally Posted by MG Rover Sport

Mike,

There were actually three cars that carried the Reg No C84 RBD, believe it or not...

Firstly, there was the Rothmans sponsored rally car used by Jimmy McRae on the 1986 National Breakdown Rally. It was then converted to left hand drive, and used by Billy Coleman on the 1986 Manx International Rally and Cork 20 International Rally, before being sold to Norway for rallycross, ice-racing and hillclimbing in January 1987.

When it was sold by DRA, they removed the actual VIN No and Reg No and fitted a DRA VIN No to the car as they knew that it didn't really need a pukka VIN No and Reg No for rallycross, ice-racing and hillclimbing!

Secondly, the VIN No and Reg No were fitted to a standard right hand drive Clubman by DRA before it was sold to Brian Bell for rallying, and then to Aiden Creegan for rallycross. He crashed it at the 1988 Rallycross GP and the car was then reshelled and rallycrossed by Aiden Creegan, Norman Kittle, John Haffey, John Moloney and more recently Lawrence Gibson.

Thirdly, the identical Reg No C84 RBD was also seen on a left hand drive Clubman rally car that DRA built for Finnish rally driver Mika Arpianen, and it rolled heavily on the 1986 1000 Lakes Rally.

You know where the first car is, I'm pretty sure that Lawrence still has the second, but I don't know what happened to the third. I hope that answers your query?

Thanks for that David- I knew that McRae, Coleman, Bell and Arpianen had all appeared in 6R4s carrying the C84RBD plate, but hadn't realised it was on 3 different cars!.

Brian Bell in 'C84RBD (ii)'
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/12/18...cdce060e72.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/howiendlynne/4299016908/
From vague memory, when Creegan used it in rallycross, the car remained white, possibly still with the stripes over the roof- I think his sponsors included Bank of Ireland at one point? Might have some pics of the car, but haven't found them yet.

[KA]

Ayrton Senna during the CCC rallycar test
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimag...0/quienes3.jpg

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by KA

Ayrton Senna during the CCC rallycar test
http://images.forum-auto.com/mesimag...0/quienes3.jpg

Hmmm, seemingly looking for reverse gear.....