[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[JeremySmith]

They should just test a canopy, devise a method for extracting the driver in case of an accident and get on with ultimately what we are going to end up with, the FIA drag their heels on all if this stuff with constant meetings ...

[Matt]

This is the style I'd like to see, with twin tubes and a crossbar...just with a windscreen and wiper for the rain.

Just more rounded from front to back.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Matt

It would have to come up super low or directly from above to intrude.

The design they've got now would protect from 95% of instances.

I assume you pulled that number out of thin air? There is a large amount of "nothing" in that design. IMHO, the level of protection would be significantly less than your number.

This design would help with scenarios such as one car riding up on the other and really large objects such as tires, but really just about anything else would get in there which is not uncommon. It likely would have been no help with a Senna or Massa type of accident. Depending upon things like angle of impact and the forces involved, it may or may not have helped with Bianchi or Maria de Villota.

As to teams using this to their advantage. I expect they will as much as they can. I would expect either the entire design to be fixed, or significant parts of it (such as cross section of halo, latch and hinge mechanism) will be to a given spec. So don't expect wings attached to it or something like that.

As much as I give this concept a hard time it is better than nothing, but not a good as they could do. As slow as F1 is to change, we have to set expectations low.

Richard

[Akrapovic]

F1 yet again determined to solve a solution to a problem others already have, but in its own way so it can be seen to be ahead of everything else.

That cockpit view is so bad it's funny.

Edit: race starts will be fun. Might as well dump the start lights and just use radios. Half the grid won't see them.

[Akrapovic]

The official line can be that the drivers are all for this device, but let's not pretend Kimis gesturing is positive here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=of10Pes03ks

[chillibowl]

that could have been about something else. positive comments from Kimi after the trial. "There was surprisingly little difference."

also credit to Ferrari for building and trying out their own variation of the concept.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/123087

[S griffin]

I see this could cause more problems than solve unless they've done all the research. I would prefer a windscreen

[Adam43]

From the side it looks alright. The view from inside isn't as bad as I thought - The single central pillar is probably better than two outer ones that could obstruct the tyres and apex view. When racing the key things are rarely directly in front of you. I think this might actually work better than to A-Pillar type roll-over type things in such a small cockpit opening. Whereas in a sportscar and those cars Matt posts the reverse is the case.

As for aerodynamic device this is a non-issue. It'll be the same shape for all. Maybe some teams will integrate it into the whole aero philosophy of the car better, but I don't see a problem with that. The impact will be minimal and not compromise the safety. Fair play.

Better than I thought.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by S griffin

I see this could cause more problems than solve unless they've done all the research. I would prefer a windscreen

Red Bull are to trial their concept in April, which I believe will be a semi canopy with a Perspex like material but without a central strut. Might be worth waiting to see.

[chillibowl]

playing devils advocate a bit here, but there are unintended consequences from a windscreen as well.

putting extraction to the side, how would you keep a windscreen clean? a wiper could work for rain but wouldnt be effective against oil and smoke.

and if it is made to work then that is another electronic system which could fail.

if safety is important then a driver presumably shouldnt be allowed on the course if they have a dirty screen so we have additional stops, early retirements, or DQ's for having a dirty screen etc. that would come across as rather silly no?

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

playing devils advocate a bit here, but there are unintended consequences from a windscreen as well.

putting extraction to the side, how would you keep a windscreen clean? a wiper could work for rain but wouldnt be effective against oil and smoke.

and if it is made to work then that is another electronic system which could fail.

if safety is important then a driver presumably shouldnt be allowed on the course if they have a dirty screen so we have additional stops, early retirements, or DQ's for having a dirty screen etc. that would come across as rather silly no?

Tear offs on pit stops...

[chillibowl]

with the tear aways, drivers already need to pull them off more often then they need to stop for tires. so while it is a solution, if it necessitates extra stops i would think its still far from ideal.

[Akrapovic]

I don't understand why all of these ideas are excluded using already solved problems?

We have lots of solutions in lots of series which all work perfectly fine, but as soon as it comes to F1, which is apparently the most advanced of all series, these problems are deal breakers. Canopies, full closed cockpits, 2 pillar frames, stand alone windscreens. All been done and work with the problems worked out, and here we are reinventing the wheel again.

[Matt]

You just pull one off every time you stop for a set of tires.

This isn't rocket science, it's done in pretty much every other series where the cars have windscreens and make pit stops. For events like the 24 Hours of Le Mans, they'll have x amount of tear offs, and for the stops between removal they'll spray the windscreen with cleaner and wipe it down.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I don't understand why all of these ideas are excluded using already solved problems?

We have lots of solutions in lots of series which all work perfectly fine, but as soon as it comes to F1, which is apparently the most advanced of all series, these problems are deal breakers. Canopies, full closed cockpits, 2 pillar frames, stand alone windscreens. All been done and work with the problems worked out, and here we are reinventing the wheel again.

This.


F1 gotta F1, I guess.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But more importantly, what is to stop FOD especially a wheel coming down, possibly one that is bouncing, on top of the driver; the "halo" gives no protection from above. There is also a probability that, as freak an incident as it may have been, Massa would not have been protected by this "halo".

This is exactly the point I was trying to make about the expanse open to a dropping piece of debris, i hate to keep referencing the Surtees incident, but I don't see how a halo would help.

[chillibowl]

to each their own but how many times does a car stop during a 24 hour long race or a race that does not end until a specific distance is covered vs a race that will be called after 2 hours. for me they already stop too many times so for sure that is more my issue then anything else.

but i would argue that the problems with F1 are unique to F1/single seaters which is why it presents a unique challenge.

personally i like the idea of a closed cockpit as i think it introduces new areas of development that other series cant afford to think about. smart windscreens, plastics that repel oil and grease, materials with enough tensile strength where pillars are not needed. im my more wilder imaginations (too much sci-fi) one day maybe even energy shields. who knows!

anyways i guess for me im not really interested in seeing F1 do things the way others do them and i suppose i like the overly complicated solutions F1 offers. doesnt always work out for the best or quickly but thats part of the appeal for me.

[Akrapovic]

During the LM24 the stint length is 45-50 minutes. No different to F1. That's 1-2 stops per race. They also have a lot more vehicles on the road kicking up dirt.

F1 is trying to invent solutions to problems it's creating for itself because it doesn't want to use current solutions. If you're being different just for the sake of being different then that's not innovation or any nonsense like that - it's just stupid.

[Armco Bender]

That halo looks like a thong,and the cockpit view looks like when you pull your underpants over your head....

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

That halo looks like a thong,and the cockpit view looks like when you pull your underpants over your head....

Obviously a man speaking with authority and the relevant experience.

[Richard C]

Maybe everyone should just refer to it as the "Thong" instead of the "Halo".

Richard

[chillibowl]

now to find a way to put the thong on the phallic shaped noses and we will have ourselves a proper swimsuit competition!

[Number4]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

That halo looks like a thong,and the cockpit view looks like when you pull your underpants over your head....

Classic! You Sir are a very funny guy.

This is what a proper F1 car looks like

[JeremySmith]

I think the halo looks pretty futuristic and I don't have a problem with it .. If we go to full F16 canopy that's fine too .. I will still watch and listen and attend our race in Austin .. Acting like a kid in a candy store and marvelling at the technology that is F1 ...

[JeremySmith]

I think the halo looks pretty futuristic and I don't have a problem with it .. If we go to full F16 canopy that's fine too .. I will still watch and listen and attend our race in Austin .. Acting like a kid in a candy store and marvelling at the technology that is F1 ...