The driver situation at Ferrari - a different view?

[Yoong Montoya]

Just a thought. You know how many people assume that Schumacher is scared of teammates beating him so he wrote a No.1 clause in his contract? Well, could it be that the real reason he hasn't had a really competitive teammate is because all the other drivers are scared of being thrashed by him, not No.1 status. Villeneuve and Raikkonen both said that they would never go to Ferrari while Schumacher is there. Maybe they won't go because they're scared he'll beat the **** out of them?

[TALAMASCA]

umm juan pablo montoya has also said no to ferrari while michael still races for them .... rubens is mentally weak eddy never had the talent and given equal cars jv i belive could go wheel to wheel with michael.. wheel to wheel at least a couple of years ago

[Flavio]

If we consider that Schumacher has all the "Ferrari Corporation" around him, receives the best package and is the best driver, I must say Barrichello is doing very good job loosing only 0,3sec. on qualifying. What do you think ?

[NiceGuyEddie]

Ferrari has no interest whatsoever in two number one drivers. Drivers like Montoya and/or Jacques would never accept a number two status, so Ferrari is to choose. Not a realy difficult choice I might add. Be that as it may, if there really is a number one clause, its more in the interest of Ferrari than of Schumacher. He gets paid anyway.

[Irv the Swerve]

Ferrari are a team. They always do what is best for the team. I honestly think that they want the best driver FOR THE TEAM in the other car, whether its Montoya, Villeneuve or Zsolt Baumgartner would not really matter, because its the TEAM that counts. Mick is always going to come out on top of his team mate because he is better, end of story.
As for all the talk of having the ferrari corporation behind him...of course he does - he earned it. Rubens isn't exactely arriving to Grand Prix with his car on a trailor behind his battered old Land Rover, now is he?

Anyway, Montoya needs to put in a big couple of performances before his stock begins to head south, and IMHO, Villeneuve is nothing but a mouthy coward who tries to bully and talk his way through F1. If he is such a megastar then lets see it on the circuit, living on the past is pathetic. He should tell Ferrari he will drive their second car for free, and then he should actually do it and show everyone what a driver he is. Fair play to Rubens and Eddie, going up against Mick can't be easy, yet they never really looked as stupid as Villenueve does now with Button.

[golem]

I'd say what they wouldn't go there for is the fact they know MS would have the predetermined No1 spot, and they figure no1 in a team that might usurp ferrri technically is better than no2 in the top team with no chance of ferrari allowing this to be altered.

To tell the truth, I think RB has been held back a little. His car always seems to be the failure prone one. (I shook my head in shame at Brazil. He was SO going to romp away with that one.) And ends up in Michael's spare a bit. (Set up for him anyway)

So I can understand other driver's trepadition about joining Ferrari while he's there. They will not get put on equal footing. To that end I think RB is doing a damn good job. Some days he really does get MS's measure. That can't be easy.

[krt917]

I agree that Michael is faster anyway, and would almost certainly see off most, if not all, the grid in the same car. Though, I would like to see less favouritism, I think it's here to stay - not that Rubens has had that bad a time of it recently (in comparison to MS).

I think we should also remember that Michael has worked his way into being an integral part of Ferrari's success. They do owe him quite a lot really.

[Tristan]

I honestly think this "clause" thing is overrated. Perhaps with Eddie there was a certain degree of bias in terms of what was expected of the drivers, but certainly with Barrichello I feel the team is merely focussed around TGF due to the fact that he is the aknowledged better driver and the fulcrum of the team in terms of what the team must achieve rather than any contractual mumbo jumbo. Like Senna and Berger in a way.

[Wrex]

I love this topic. It comes up every couple of months and while personal bias riddles these threads, logic has left the building.

Ferrari are a team, and as a team will put the majority of it's resources into it's strengths. At this point in time, thats MS.

But before being a team, Ferrari is a business. They all are. There is no way in hell they are going to spend a zillion dollares in MS if Alonso, Jacques or Montoya could do they same thing for less money.

This point seems to escape many here. While Ferrari strategy may (and I dont believe it does) give MS an advantage to the fans, Ferrari themselves would at least know the full story. If Rubins was better than Michael (all round), do you really think they would keep paying MS that sort of money when Rubins could take over?

If Monty, Kimi, JV etc really wanted to prove their worth, would'nt racing along side Michael be the best way to do it? If with team orders etc, Ferrari would know which driver was better.

What I also find funny is that all these "I would'nt drive for Ferrari" mouths have never had the offer! So it's kind of irrelivant is'nt it.

[TeddyG]

It's not really about the money Wrex...Schumi IS Formula One today...whoever has him will sell tons of merchandise/camera time/sponsorship deals/etc. as he is right now considered the best driver (perhaps of all time)

They make more money off him than they do paying him believe me that's how this "business" works...to speak of logic, you don't really believe that MS is worth that much more than say Raikkonen or Montoya in terms of on track performance do you? I have no quams about saying that if Montoya, Raikkonen, Villeneuve or whoever was in that Ferrari from 2000-2002 would have won the WDC... no question.

People who have any self respect (unlike Rubens) won't race for Ferrari because they know the team is built around Shumi (whether he deserves it or not) this will always be the case as long as he is there so racing for them means admitting #2 status.
Granted Schumi is talented and I believe faster than most of the grid, however it is sad that we will never really see a JV/Shumi or JPM/Shumi matchup that would really prove this.

[Wrex]

I agree with you that about a dozen drivers could have driver then F12002 to victory (but would it have been the same car had "Montoya, Raikkonen, Villeneuve or whoever" been there since 1996? I dont think so. Although, that BAR has developed nicely.

As for the "JV/Shumi or JPM/Shumi matchup" -

Your kidding right? These two are having enough trouble keeping Ralf and Button behind them. With this being the case, what chance would they have against a 5 x WDC?

[TeddyG]

ummm I think Monty breezed past Ralf pretty easily in the last GP (I don't think there is any doubt who has the raw speed in that matchup) and JV has only had the chance to compeate in 2 of the 5 GP's and has the same amount of points as Button who has had 100% reliability so don't really know what you mean there.

[Wrex]

C'mon Teddy, if MS was in the Williams or BAr seat, do you really think Ralf and Button would be keeping it as close as they are Juan and Jacques?

[TeddyG]

Granted it may not have been the same team without Shumi but that has more to do with the Bryne, Brawn, and Todt combination more than anything. Similarly BAR wouldn't exist without JV considering he couldn't take the best F1 designers and managers with him I think he has done quite well...JV created BAR without him that team wouldn't exist as BAT wouldn't have put up the money unless he was involved...Shumi can't say the same thing, he may have helped Ferrari to their current success but Ferrari would still be around with or without Schumi.

JV started a brand new team...Schumi helped a team (who has been in F1 since the beginning get back to the top) honestly which is the harder task here?

[TeddyG]

Originally posted by Wrex;
"C'mon Teddy, if MS was in the Williams or BAr seat, do you really think Ralf and Button would be keeping it as close as they are Juan and Jacques?"

Well if MS had suffered the same amount of reliability problems as JV I would say yes...Montoya granted has plenty of raw speed but can't control it as well as Jacques and has made some errors...still you know you'd love to see a Shumi/Montoya partnership don't kid yourself

[Wrex]

I would love to see both of them mate. 2 reasons:

a) Occasionaly, MS would really have to earn his money and would not always come out on top.

b) He would ultimately expose them as inferior to him.

[TeddyG]

well of course that's what we all want to see (well I don't know about the MS superior part)...Unfortunatly until it happens we will never really know will we? IMO this is why Schumi will never be considered the greatest by many people...he has never allowed himself to have a really competitive teammate as the likes of Senna/Mansell and others did.

[Wrex]

Originally posted by TeddyG
...he has never allowed himself to have a really competitive teammate as the likes of Senna/Mansell and others did.

LMAO


Hang on a second, I thought it was JV and co that refused to drive for Ferrari? Michael does'nt have to prove anything (5 WDC is pretty sweet to most people). If the others want to prove they are better than Michael, stop publically refusing non-existant offers to drive alongside him.

[TeddyG]

Well that's the point Wrex...NON EXISTANT offers...as many of the drivers (Montoya/JV) have said if they could be guaranteed equal status they would drive for Ferrari but as they know this is not possible (the offers of equal status have not come) they won't.

[Wrex]

They are'nt getting offers period, conditional or otherwise! Why?

[TeddyG]

Because they know any driver that is competitive enough to race with Shumi will not sign their "Shumi is #1" contracts...they already have a perfect (and spineless) #2 in Rubens why would they want to change that?

[Wrex]

Hang on Teddy, what clause would that be? Team oders are illegal, so even if they still happened it would never appear in a contract (you can't contract against an illegal rule).

Or are you talking about his 'spare car' clause? Double dare ya to open up that can of worms.

Anyway, your saying they would'nt accept the drive, I'm saying it really does'nt matter as they don't want him anyway.

[Frank_White]

Quote: "ummm I think Monty breezed past Ralf pretty easily in the last GP..."

i think that it is only fair to point out that ralf out-drove juan for the majority of the barcelonia gp. it was only when he had an off during his duel with fernando that the aerodynamics on his car became damaged, causing him to lose some 3seconds off his former pace.

[TeddyG]

Right I forgot about the new team orders rule...in which case Ferrari DEFINATLY will not hire any new drivers. They have Rubens fully indocrinated as to how things work at Ferrari and they can be sure (as long as they give him a few token wins and podiums) he won't rock the boat. My guess is Rubens will partner MS until he retires or leaves Ferrari.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by Wrex
Or are you talking about his 'spare car' clause? Double dare ya to open up that can of worms.

But see, that's all OK, because you know, the "driver" with the spare car clause won something back when, uh, the Backstreet Boys were actually popular.