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Old 3 Sep 2013, 12:06 (Ref:3298301)   #2576
Flo aus N
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Originally Posted by Weaver View Post
Yup. That's the chassis. What a blast that was. I'll post some pics of us testing it a Putnam park with the original Courage platform.

Thank you all for the warm reception.

But I don't wanna hijack the thread. Many different reasons for Porsche to use DI. Most important, it relates to the street cars. This makes the board members happy.

With the Acura we tested three different types of "muffler" to get the decibel level down to IMSA/FIA regs. WEC follows the same regs when it comes to decibel level for gas engines, but with turbos, won't be an issue.

If it was March, I would be very interested in why the Porsche sounds so "off", why it seemed to be shifting out of range or geared incorrectly. But there is so much time til winter.

I hope there will be some video from Paul Ricard or Jerez.

Oh, and for the question of model designation, since the LMP2 car was the 9R6, it might be the 9R7,8, or 9 I bet.
Well indeed very intersting. But you have to consider that they will use 4 cylinder, small displacement engine with a high stroke und high charging pressure, to get the maximum of effiecency out of the engine. As a consequence, it will have a high tourque at quite low revs (5.000 rpm ? ).
With that quite unusual behavier of torque for a petrol engine, it makes sense to shift the gears short, almost like a diesel engine and in combination with a 7-speed gearbox, that could explain, why they have so unusual shifts.
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 12:06 (Ref:3298302)   #2577
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Its growing on me . Good picture shows how much vision the driver has . Id like to see them ban that big wheel arch on safety grounds .
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 12:14 (Ref:3298305)   #2578
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Will be interesting to see whether Porsche keep those aggressive front fender shapes, Toyota have just toned their's down while Audi have never had that vertical shape at the front like the Porsche does here. You wonder whether it really is the best way to go.

Of course, it may be the best design for the aero philosophy which will be different to these year's cars anyway. The hybrid system will need a lot of cooling I would imagine.
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 12:15 (Ref:3298307)   #2579
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Well indeed very intersting. But you have to consider that they will use 4 cylinder, small displacement engine with a high stroke und high charging pressure, to get the maximum of effiecency out of the engine. As a consequence, it will have a high tourque at quite low revs (5.000 rpm ? ).
With that quite unusual behavier of torque for a petrol engine, it makes sense to shift the gears short, almost like a diesel engine and in combination with a 7-speed gearbox, that could explain, why they have so unusual shifts.
If that's a car with high torque next year then the LMP1 cars could be very slow! The Porsche in the vid didn't look very quick at all and that's why I'm not sure this will be the proper sound.
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 12:45 (Ref:3298315)   #2580
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If that's a car with high torque next year then the LMP1 cars could be very slow! The Porsche in the vid didn't look very quick at all and that's why I'm not sure this will be the proper sound.
I did not say that they went full throttle or how they used their hybrid system(s).
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 13:31 (Ref:3298333)   #2581
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look at the end part of the fin...Am I wrong or I see heavy photoshop?

it lacks a part of the fin and use the background barrier's colour..
Do the front and rear wheels look the same size to anybody else? I thought for 2014 the fronts where going to be a smaller diameter again.
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Old 3 Sep 2013, 21:15 (Ref:3298510)   #2582
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The size is the same relatively speaking. You actually have a greater decrease in width of the car than the wheel width dimensions! 2000mm to 1900mm car width / 14.5" to 13" wheels. Or 3.9 inches decrease car width / 3.0 inches wheel width.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 01:40 (Ref:3298620)   #2583
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Well indeed very intersting. But you have to consider that they will use 4 cylinder, small displacement engine with a high stroke und high charging pressure, to get the maximum of effiecency out of the engine. As a consequence, it will have a high tourque at quite low revs (5.000 rpm ? ).
With that quite unusual behavier of torque for a petrol engine, it makes sense to shift the gears short, almost like a diesel engine and in combination with a 7-speed gearbox, that could explain, why they have so unusual shifts.
No, I would have never considered an under-square engine because of the tracks WEC commonly race on. Yes, they are great for efficiency and torque. But honestly, I would want a torquey, low rev engine for places like Del Mar, New Orleans, Baltimore, or maybe St. Pete. Drag strips with 90 degree corners, like some of the old American IMSA street courses. Not for European tracks with long straights and fast flowing corners.

It seems to me, to make an engine like that to be competitive and remain a 7 speed, it would need a really big ring & pinion or drop gears. Since the g-boxes are homologated at the beginning of the season, I don't think you can change cases or gear counts (switching from 7 to 8 in the same case). I would think that to be competitive at Le Mans, Monza, Austin, or Silverstone one would use a square or over square, high rpm engine. The efficiency would come from fuel and boost metering, plenum design (kinda like the early 80's with Motronic), and the hybrid system.

I know very little about hybrid systems, most here probably know more about them than me. I'm not an engineer, I was just a mechanic and gearbox guy, but I can't wait to learn more about this stuff. And I can't wait to see this car in person. I'll be in Austin.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 01:54 (Ref:3298624)   #2584
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I hated when the mufflers went on those cars... they sounded so great at full song.
Look on YouTube for "ALMS test Homestead" by DG Algie. The car was in the original equal length, straight out headers. But more importantly, it had the original IRL intended firing order. The engine sounded great, but it shook the Courage components to death and we had clutch and dog ring wear.

Sorry, I don't know how to post links yet. Look it up, it sounded great.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 02:01 (Ref:3298626)   #2585
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I'm interested to see (though we may never actually know these types of details) how the unknown energy recovery systems will interact with the drivetrain.

I think the regs require constraints around how and when the energy can be released,.... Questions: Could this be synchronized with particular gears or gear changes? Could you have one system (let's say a front wheel flywheel system) just give extra boost on corner exit,.... but then have a rear drive system (enter dangerous banned technology here) that would be sycronized to activate for say only 6th and 7th gear?

I don't know jack about gearboxes; but it seems intriguing,.... maybe the secondary system could just be used for fuel economy purposes; but it would seem like some advantages could be gained in this way?????

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Old 4 Sep 2013, 04:46 (Ref:3298657)   #2586
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If you want to get 4 bar of boost from a 2L 4 cyl engine, you have to rev it high. Rev it high and there is so much friction and so much inefficiency. With no fuel limit might have made some sense, but in 2014 they will have hard time with this unit to get the boost and the fuel numbers, unless you sacrifice one or the other.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 05:03 (Ref:3298658)   #2587
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Look on YouTube for "ALMS test Homestead" by DG Algie. The car was in the original equal length, straight out headers. But more importantly, it had the original IRL intended firing order. The engine sounded great, but it shook the Courage components to death and we had clutch and dog ring wear.

Sorry, I don't know how to post links yet. Look it up, it sounded great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzAGZaLsqhk
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:31 (Ref:3298844)   #2588
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On this week's french AutoHebdo they show the Porsche with a Gulf livery. Does it mean something or is it just some random illustration ?
It reads "Porsche 2014, our new info", that's why I'm asking.




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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:42 (Ref:3298853)   #2589
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I think that's a deliberately misleading photoshop job to raise interest. Nothing wrong with it technically speaking - no Gulf logos on that car.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:42 (Ref:3298852)   #2590
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It means they know sports car racing history and understand sports car racing fans.

With Mobil1 sponsorship I doubt we will be seeing Gulf livery.

(ExxonMobil to Support 2014 Porsche LMP1 http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/spor...p1-291663.html)
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:50 (Ref:3298859)   #2591
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That's what I thought, it seemed unlikely.

Thanks
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:53 (Ref:3298861)   #2592
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It's not a Gulf reference.



Not inconceivable at all the car could be white/grey and orange.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:59 (Ref:3298864)   #2593
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The 911 GT3 R Hybrid did the orange thing also ... but orange and blue? Seems vaguely reminiscent of some 917s I recall-- well, of which I have seen pictures. I didn't see them race.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 13:59 (Ref:3298865)   #2594
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With Mobil1 sponsorship I doubt we will be seeing Gulf livery.

(ExxonMobil to Support 2014 Porsche LMP1 http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/spor...p1-291663.html)
Everyone note that this is from Sept 2012, but I don't remember reading about this... official press released back then said this:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...ership-Porsche

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With Porsche’s planned return to the pinnacle of endurance motorsports racing in the LMP1 class, Mobil 1 racing engineers will continue delivering technical support as the auto manufacturer’s exclusive motorsports lubrication partner. Leveraging their successful collaboration for designing lubricants for Porsche road and racing engines, Porsche and Mobil 1 experts will team up for the 2014 World Endurance Championship racing season, which includes the 24 hours of Le Mans.

(...) "We are delighted to extend our technical partnership."
It sounds more technical partnership than title sponsoring.

And I'm still thinking the major sponsor could be something they have not announced yet. Or more like hoping, because if not even they can secure a major deal, that tells something about the attractiveness of WEC.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 14:12 (Ref:3298874)   #2595
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Everyone note that this is from Sept 2012, but I don't remember reading about this... official press released back then said this:

http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...ership-Porsche


It sounds more technical partnership than title sponsoring.

And I'm still thinking the major sponsor could be something they have not announced yet. Or more like hoping, because if not even they can secure a major deal, that tells something about the attractiveness of WEC.
Could be they don't want one. Audi have never seemed to be after one and many manufacturers at Le Mans in the modern era haven't raced with them...Bentley didn't for example.

Don't get me wrong, they still might be after a title sponsor but just because they don't have one doesn't mean the WEC is unattractive to sponsors.

Must be above the WRC in the pecking order!
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 14:21 (Ref:3298887)   #2596
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It's not a Gulf reference.



Not inconceivable at all the car could be white/grey and orange.
This explains it, AH even made the elliptic form on the roof.

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Old 4 Sep 2013, 15:08 (Ref:3298909)   #2597
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One could say that 918 livery is a Gulf reference...
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 15:21 (Ref:3298916)   #2598
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Could be they don't want one. Audi have never seemed to be after one and many manufacturers at Le Mans in the modern era haven't raced with them...Bentley didn't for example.

Don't get me wrong, they still might be after a title sponsor but just because they don't have one doesn't mean the WEC is unattractive to sponsors.
I think we had this discussion not so long ago? My point is still same: use your own money vs. use someone else's money. Also I just can't believe putting "Audi Ultra Lightweight" sticker on the fin is just that valuable, that they'd turn down a big enough sponsorship offers just because of that.

Bentley example: no WEC back then and probably relatively cheap program compared to current ones.

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Must be above the WRC in the pecking order!
Not sure so sure in terms of title sponsoring: Middle-East sponsors Citroen and M-Sport/Ford, and VW obviously snatched Red Bull from Citroen.
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 15:51 (Ref:3298929)   #2599
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I think we had this discussion not so long ago? My point is still same: use your own money vs. use someone else's money. Also I just can't believe putting "Audi Ultra Lightweight" sticker on the fin is just that valuable, that they'd turn down a big enough sponsorship offers just because of that.

Bentley example: no WEC back then and probably relatively cheap program compared to current ones.


Not sure so sure in terms of title sponsoring: Middle-East sponsors Citroen and M-Sport/Ford, and VW obviously snatched Red Bull from Citroen.
Yes we did, that's why I got a sense of deja vu while typing it.

I think the WRC being as weak as it is, the going rate for title sponsorship is very cheap...
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Old 4 Sep 2013, 16:52 (Ref:3298949)   #2600
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I think we had this discussion not so long ago? My point is still same: use your own money vs. use someone else's money. Also I just can't believe putting "Audi Ultra Lightweight" sticker on the fin is just that valuable, that they'd turn down a big enough sponsorship offers just because of that.

Bentley example: no WEC back then and probably relatively cheap program compared to current ones.


Not sure so sure in terms of title sponsoring: Middle-East sponsors Citroen and M-Sport/Ford, and VW obviously snatched Red Bull from Citroen.
Interesting comment. Much of the in house branding on the Audi means little to nothing to me. Unless they start building carbon fibre monocoque standard on all road cars then Ultra Lightweight will have meaning...
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