Grp C/Grp A/V8SC 'Where are they now?' continued...

[bent65]

Originally Posted by David Towe

What's the Group A history of this car please?

This was the car Don Smith and John Craft first built in 1986 and was the first sierra to be constructed in Australia. It was on display at Adelaide in 1986 and predates the DJ cars by many months.
It was the first sierra to compete in the very first group a event of 1987.
It was used by Don Smith and then Andrew Miedecke for the 1987 ATCC and was rolled at Sandown. It was one of only four cars to compete as a pre rs500 and still retains the bonnet pin holes in the hatch that could no longer be used when the rs500 spoiler was fitted.
It is the consecutive Motorsport chassis number apart from the sister car that was used by Don Smith, John Giddings in 1987. It is identical to the sister car as these two were built in 1986. The rollover damage wasnt that bad , mainly on the passengers roof. Mike completely repaired the shell on a rack with all the original haning panels . The front guards were removed. The original roll cage has never been out of the car, it has the original configuration that made these first two different from the third/replacement car. The third car burnt at lakeside '89.

[bent65]

Originally Posted by jd yort

...and the Sports Sedan community are going to be in mourning when they find out that the Mike Ceveri Sports Sedan has been parted out so someone can get the body shell to restore back as a Grp A Sierra.

The only thing Grp A on that car was the shell, a rolled one at that. That Sierra had more authenticity as an Australian Sports Sedan Championship winner than it ever did as a Grp A car.

I don't know that they would be mourning as Mike had the car for sale for over 3 years and nobody managed to save it from being returned to group A spec.
Don Smith first told me about the car being with Mike in about 2008 but Mike didn't want to sell it at that time. As soon as I sat in it I knew it was the real OXO car, as there was another car being claimed as it. After it had been for sale for awhile we discussed the idea of parting it out if it doesn't sell as a sports sedan. Mike got tired of tyre kickers and silly offers. Mike did a Phenomenal job converting it to sports sedan and the proof is in his results!
You are correct in that it and Mike had fantastic, and more, success as, a Sports sedan, (national and quite a few state titles) but its history is its history.
No one is claiming it is the car as it sat on the grid at Oran Park in Feb 1987 but it will be the restored shell and the original parts I have managed to reunite with it. Being the first I believe it's a fairly important piece of our history and at the very least the sister car and consecutive Ford Motorsport shell to the other car.
The value of it isn't really important as its history will always remain that it was rolled and restored back from a sports sedan.

[bent65]

Originally Posted by David Towe

That will be expensive to restore to Group A specs.

Yes Dave as you well know these cars arent cheap.
The shell has new floors in it & quarter panels inflared.
It needs the air jack tubes reinstated , some diff braces reinstated, a trans tunnel and front guards. Progress has stopped recently but hopefully get under way agin soon.
Will we see the M3 at Bathurst?
Cheers Ben.

[jd yort]

Good to hear it from the horses mouth Ben. I assumed that the original cage would of been long gone from the car and surprised that you have tracked down the original running gear. Still very sad to see it disappear as a Sports Sedan. Once Mike had the initial problems sorted the car dominated during that period. I know many people are disappointed to see it parted out and mike would of been one of them but money talks at the end of the day.

Is there any concern that it may not get the CoD?

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by bent65

Will we see the M3 at Bathurst?
Cheers Ben.

Possibly 4 of them Ben.

[David Towe]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Arent logbooks tied to VINs?

Yes, and my VIN was checked for the first time ever against my log book, when we did Muscle Car Masters the week before last.

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by jd yort

Good to hear it from the horses mouth Ben. I assumed that the original cage would of been long gone from the car and surprised that you have tracked down the original running gear. Still very sad to see it disappear as a Sports Sedan. Once Mike had the initial problems sorted the car dominated during that period. I know many people are disappointed to see it parted out and mike would of been one of them but money talks at the end of the day.

Is there any concern that it may not get the CoD?

Another loss to Sports Sedan history. Why cant Sports Sedans hysterical/historical get off the ground? A different topic jdy, maybe you could kick it off with your knowledge of the topic.

[jd yort]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Another loss to Sports Sedan history. Why cant Sports Sedans hysterical/historical get off the ground? A different topic jdy, maybe you could kick it off with your knowledge of the topic.

Hmmm, I can only speculate like anyone. These are my thoughts in no particular order....(yes it is off topic but we will get back on topic)

- Not as many cars left as people think. F5000, Grp C & GrpA restorations have significantly lowered the population. On top of this, the Muscle Car boom removed former race cars like Torana's (many a genuine XU1 racing back in the day) and lower profile cars that once filled the grids were left in paddocks to meet their fate during the metal price boom 10 years back.
- Custom nature of a Sports Sedan. eg If Chris Clearihan was to run the K&A Alfa and to bend / break it everything would have to custom made or reengineered to make something else work. Virtually nothing would be off the shelf meanwhile you can probably still buy some Sierra Grp A bits off the shelf.
- Geographical spread of Grp U enthusiast. You have Simon Pfizener in SA and I think it may be Fred Sayers up in QLD but not much chatter coming from VIC or NSW. Simon I would think would be too busy with PPG to be herding potential owners at the moment.
- They still have a place to run. You can rock up to any State race meeting and run a sports sedan regardless of age. NSW / VIC SC are very healthy at the moment and Qld are getting back on track even with Outlaw movement up there. At a State Championship round you may have up to 5 cars running on a weekend that are eligible with some modifications for Group U.
- The Demographic of Sports Sedan owners. Excluding the owners of cars that are actively racing, it seems many of the cars fall into the hands of procrastinators. Alternatively they become a project that is behind 10 other projects for the owner. I have lost count of the number of people on the Sports Sedan forum that come like a bull out of a gate urgently looking for information / advice on a car they have just acquired and then just disappear just as quickly as they appeared.
I am sure this observation is not unique to Sports Sedan owners but geez it seems common in the community. 90% of the doers involved or interested in the class are already out racing.

The number of people who care about the loss of a Sports Sedan is far outweighed by the number of people who are happy about the resurrection of a Grp A (or Grp C) especially prominent cars. As Ben said it sat there for 3+ years unsold and it was at a good price too compared to some for it to be saved and the last person who would probably ever want to see it parted out had to part it out.

[bent65]

Some very good points there jd as I have been curious as to why the category has been slow to get up. I know Fred Sayers was very instrumental in pushing for it.
There was talk of trying to get them to combine/run with another category but must be difficult to get agreement.

A quick note that the OXO/Ceveri sierra, in S/Sedan spec, wasn't eligible for Group U as Mike first competed in 1988 and Group U cuts off end of '85.
I will try to get some pics up as soon as I can.

cheers Ben

[TCR]

Originally Posted by bent65

A quick note that the OXO/Ceveri sierra, in S/Sedan spec, wasn't eligible for Group U as Mike first competed in 1988 and Group U cuts off end of '85.

Good point. Probably contibuted to the reason why it was for sale so long, I mean who wants to race a 25 yo Sports Sedan against the current crop of cars.

[one five five]

Originally Posted by TCR

I mean who wants to race a 25 yo Sports Sedan against the current crop of cars.

Isn't the Ricciardello Alfa about 20 years old?

[cavvy]

The current Ricciardello car debuted in the early 90s - in its earliest incarnation Brian Smith won a national title in 1994. A great example a race car & work in progress.
The earlier Alfetta was debuted in 1985 driven by Smithy - I understand that car went to Joe Ricciardo who had local success. I read it was sold to Qld & is probably in a shed somewhere.

Digressing Dick Ward had his Fiat Abarth Rotary out last weekend in the local Formula Classic.

[TCR]

Originally Posted by one five five

Isn't the Ricciardello Alfa about 20 years old?

Yes, but it's been developed a lot since it first ran in the early 90's. The Sierra would have taken a lot of time and money to be developed into a competitive car against the current cars.

[Mixer]

(apologies for OT)

I spannered on the Bryan Thomson Benz the last time it raced here (think its in NZ now?) and it was a recalcitrant, evil machine, so I'm more excited about a historic GrpA car than an old Sports Sedan

[kittle]

Who owns the GRM 427 Monaro's??

[MalcolmC]

Originally Posted by kittle

Who owns the GRM 427 Monaro's??

I think one went to the UK, raced by Matt Griffin... rebadged as a Vauxhall of course.

[racer69]

Originally Posted by MalcolmC

I think one went to the UK, raced by Matt Griffin... rebadged as a Vauxhall of course.

That was a different car, it ran with a 5.7ltr engine and never raced in Australia (was Australian built from memory though)

GRM still owns the yellow one don't they?
Rob Sherrard (i think) owned the '03 Bathurst 24hr winner
The third Team Brock built car i'm not sure who owns it?

[Umai Naa]

Pretty sure the Team Brock car no longer exists.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Pretty sure the Team Brock car no longer exists.

Didnt Mr Abay own the James Brock-built Monaro for a while?

[jd yort]

In the latest Muscle Car Magazine article on the ANZ Sierra's it says that the number 9 car was sold overseas at the end of the Grp A era to Bruce Miles in NZ. At the 2011 MCM event there was 2 ANZ Sierra's present (No 90 & 100 with dodgy electrical tape). I do not have the event programme but my recollection was they were both entered by Dr Bob with one car being driven by Chris Dubois and the other by Dr Bob.




So to me the Number 9 car was never sold directly overseas. Can anyone confirm? (shame DrBob does not post on here now adays)

[GTRMagic]

The RHD #90 is the Rouse-prepared car that Mr Moffat rented for Bathurst 1987..

The LHD #100 is the Eggenberger-prepared #10 that Mr Moffat ran in 4 Bathurst races.. the second of his ANZ & later Cenovis-sponsored cars.

[jd yort]

Ok, so the 3rd car that also ran in ANZ livery is the car that is not pictured and went straight to NZ after the Grp A days. As opposed to the number 90 above which was leased from Rouse and ran at Bathurst and the Calder WTCC Rd only and currently resides still in Australia be it in Dr Bobs hands or someone else's now a days.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by jd yort

Ok, so the 3rd car that also ran in ANZ livery is the car that is not pictured and went straight to NZ after the Grp A days. As opposed to the number 90 above which was leased from Rouse and ran at Bathurst and the Calder WTCC Rd only and currently resides still in Australia be it in Dr Bobs hands or someone else's now a days.

That seems to be the case...

[GTRMagic]

[KA]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The RHD #90 is the Rouse-prepared car that Mr Moffat rented for Bathurst 1987..

Originally Posted by jd yort

As opposed to the number 90 above which was leased from Rouse and ran at Bathurst and the Calder WTCC Rd only and currently resides still in Australia be it in Dr Bobs hands or someone else's now a days.

The Rouse car came back to the UK - Rouse ran it in France in '88 before selling it on. It was restored to the Bathurst ANZ colours by UK RS500 collector Martin Johnson in the early 2000s before being sold back to Australia a few years back. IIRC it's been converted from RHD to LHD and back along the way
http://www.motorsportretro.com/2013/...0-ford-sierra/