Citroën in DTM from 2010?

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Valenok

And why they must enter DTM? Not WTCC?

Who was claiming that?!? Certainly not me.

They've never had V8 in their model line. And RWD.

And I'm sure you find many RWD cars at your local Audi shop?!?

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by Valenok

They will lose Loeb and it is great damage

Well you never know, Seb might turn to circuit racing. But anyway a brand is way bigger than a driver.

Originally Posted by Valenok

And why they must enter DTM? Not WTCC?

C5 is way too big for WTCC. Besides what use is for Citroen to go head to head with Seat and Chevy?The C5 aims right at Audi and Mercedes.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by stedevil

And I'm sure you find many RWD cars at your local Audi shop?!?

But they can be V8. When I see Citroen RWD and V8 are the last what I think. I think it's not good for marketing purposes.
On the other hand French must develop their V8 engines and I don't know any V8 from PSA.

[Go_For_Pole]

Originally Posted by Valenok

When I see Citroen RWD and V8 are the last what I think. I think it's not good for marketing purposes.

V8=premium and it is true that currently when you see Citroen you tend to associate it with smaller cars. But that can be one idea behind a marketing campaign, to change perceptions.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by Go_For_Pole

Well you never know, Seb might turn to circuit racing. But anyway a brand is way bigger than a driver.

Is Seb good enough for DTM-racing?
I just want to say that Loeb is one more reason to leave WRC

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Valenok

But they can be V8. When I see Citroen RWD and V8 are the last what I think. I think it's not good for marketing purposes.
On the other hand French must develop their V8 engines and I don't know any V8 from PSA.

Did you bother to read the TCT news article? There is a big chance it wont be Petrol V8's in DTM for 2010...
Smaller highly efficient high on enviromental tech engines is right down PSAs ally...

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Did you bother to read the TCT news article? There is a big chance it wont be Petrol V8's in DTM for 2010...
Smaller highly efficient high on enviromental tech engines is right down PSAs ally...

So big changes? I'm afraid it isn't simple - i'd like to see V6turbo, but I think BMW has another opinion. May be "not over 6 cyl" as Class 1? Not a bad idea, I think...

[werner]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Really? Because it's been a while since i saw the Peugeot brand name in both WRC and Dakar Type Rallying. Also what world class racing format do you see both brands in going head to head?

Peugeot and Citroen have battled fiercely in the WRC. In 2002 Peugeot was a top-dog in WRC, with Burns and Gronholm. In that year Citroen entered with Loeb and Radstrom. 2003 was Citroens first complete year in WRC, with an effort completely independant from Peugeot. Peugeot stayed as an official works-team until 2005, with Gronholm and Martin. in 2006 there were still some very professional privateers in the WRC with a 307 WRC, Stohl and H. Solberg.

[Go_For_Pole]

This is true of course but when Peugeot quit WRC it was stated that PSA would not allow such a thing to happen again.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Valenok

i'd like to see V6turbo, but I think BMW has another opinion.

I don't think BMW would dislike that, they've got a biturbo V6 in their line up (the engine from the 335 / 535) which would be perfectly suitable. However, the common carbon base chassis would be more against BMW's will as they want to race cars based on their production cars (like WTCC and their GT2 M3), not silhouettes.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I don't think BMW would dislike that, they've got a biturbo V6 in their line up (the engine from the 335 / 535) which would be perfectly suitable. However, the common carbon base chassis would be more against BMW's will as they want to race cars based on their production cars (like WTCC and their GT2 M3), not silhouettes.

V6 from BMW? I'm surprized. I think, BMW is fond of inline sheme, not V6. 335/535 also have 6 cylindres in line.
As for common chassi, it remember me V8Star - common chassi and other parts, but DTM will have original engine.

[stedevil]

Hehe, guess that shows how closely I've been following rally the last decade. Thanks for the lesson Werner

I do remember the PSA brandswitch in Dakar though and wondering if the WRC way might have had something to do with signed contracts with drivers?

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Valenok

V6 from BMW? I'm surprized. I think, BMW is fond of inline sheme, not V6. 335/535 also have 6 cylindres in line.
As for common chassi, it remember me V8Star - common chassi and other parts, but DTM will have original engine.

I stand corrected, you are completely right. I had read over the 'V' part, BMW is inline indeed.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

I don't think BMW would dislike that, they've got a biturbo V6 in their line up (the engine from the 335 / 535) which would be perfectly suitable. However, the common carbon base chassis would be more against BMW's will as they want to race cars based on their production cars (like WTCC and their GT2 M3), not silhouettes.

Maybe BMW themselves would still not field cars, but maybe they'd support interested privateers. With a common chassis and reduced aero they only had to supply engines.
Hopefully this new rules will bring independant privateer efforts back into DTM.

- Lola-DTM-chassis: 200.000€
- fake BMW-engine built by Zytek: 100.000€
- Beating the factory squads of Audi and Mercedes: Priceless...

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Maybe BMW themselves would still not field cars, but maybe they'd support interested privateers. With a common chassis and reduced aero they only had to supply engines.
Hopefully this new rules will bring independant privateer efforts back into DTM.

- Lola-DTM-chassis: 200.000€
- fake BMW-engine built by Zytek: 100.000€
- Beating the factory squads of Audi and Mercedes: Priceless...

Sounds like a wet dream. If this is possible with the new regs I dont see any reason why STCC/BTCC and its likes wont follow it. It could be the greatest.

[Félix]

I always wonder why the DTM doesn't do this: http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/gallery.php?num=7353

They have Mercs, BMWs, Jags, Audis...

[duke_toaster]

And the cars are slower than Super 2000.

The best thing for touring car racing would be for the DTM and ADAC Procar to merge in to one S2000 series covering Central Europe.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

And the cars are slower than Super 2000.

The best thing for touring car racing would be for the DTM and ADAC Procar to merge in to one S2000 series covering Central Europe.

Naw, the best would be DTM re-naming itself to DRM running to slightly altered GT2 rules with Porsches, M3s, CLKs and Audi R8s/S5s.

I don't think S2000 would ever really fly in Germany. After all STW was never nearly as popular as DTM.

[stedevil]

Well DTM used to be "S2000" type cars (before S2000 existed). What makes DTM so successful today is all the Promo and big recognized names in the sport. DTM is extremely well managed on that end. No reason to assume the same couldn't be made with the same resources for S2000 type of cars.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

That was STW, which was discontinued when they kicked life into DTM again. DTM has always run fast/spectacular cars. But another manufacteror won't make it (much) better, neither will new regs. Kill it, and focus on things that have the potential to entertain. Like the BTCC, or sportscars.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by stedevil

Well DTM used to be "S2000" type cars (before S2000 existed). What makes DTM so successful today is all the Promo and big recognized names in the sport. DTM is extremely well managed on that end. No reason to assume the same couldn't be made with the same resources for S2000 type of cars.

DTM never used anything like S2000...the Class 1 cars were far different animals (and IMO still the coolest touring cars on earth...unfortunately ridiculously expensive too)

I don't like the fact that it will be essentially a spec series if they introduce the single chassis, on the other hand, they aren't really touring cars at the moment anyway and with the new regs, at least it's easier for a new brand to join. I suspect we'd see a lot more "Citroens" if you can develop a new car for whatever change you got lying around

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

That was STW, which was discontinued when they kicked life into DTM again.

How can you say something as silly as DTM not being called DTM but STW and then say DTM was started up again?!?

The Deutsche Tourenwagen Meisterschaft (German Touring Car Championship, or DTM) was a touring car racing series held from 1984 to 1996.

And here you can find some videos from the time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUAE-819OG4

STW was run 94-99 and is something else...

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

the Class 1 cars were far different animals (and IMO still the coolest touring cars on earth...unfortunately ridiculously expensive too)

It was only changed to class 1 cars in 93, and that change is probably what killed it off in the end. But even a class 1 car is closer to an S2000 car then todays DTM cars (which really is a pure GT car).

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by stedevil

It was only changed to class 1 cars in 93, and that change is probably what killed it off in the end. But even a class 1 car is closer to an S2000 car then todays DTM cars (which really is a pure GT car).

1.) I think he was refering to Gr. A as a S2000 predecessor
2.) DTM is not even like true GT racing but more like Super GT/Rolex GT prep2 which are -by the majority of the fans - not regarded as true GT series.
I guess they are even closer to NASCAR than to S2000.

[broadrun96]

yeah, thought the DTM car were pure tube-frame chassis with a carbon body resembling the street car but aero-modified, aka the NASCAR way. Do wish they would develop and world-wide touring car standard, maybe bringing other manufacturers into DTM can make a rules package others can pick up. The C5 looks like a good DTM silhouette and isn't a bad looking car, RWD V8 (petrol or diesel?)