Superspeed Circuit Challenge

[dyewat808]

Firstly, hi everybody. A forum for track design is something I thought I'd never see, so I'm doubly glad I stumbled across this forum. I've had an idea for a challenge that I'm gonna enter myself - there's no end to it, and there is no deadline, or judging or anything like that.

Anyway, here's the challenge:

Firstly, think along the lines of the old Hockenheim Ring, but without the chicanes (or maybe with one left in). You must design a track that is no shorter than 10 kilometres long, and can be as long as you like (there is no maxiumum total track length). The idea is that the cars that would race on this track if it were real, would reach incredibly high speeds. The track must also have at least 1 long straight (you can interpret "long straight" any way you want).

Oh, and it can't be an oval. It must have both left and right hand turns.

[dyewat808]

Whilst I remember, here's an example:


This is not my final attempt, I'm not sure its to scale, cos I'm not sure its 10 km. This is just a quick example of what I mean in the challenge.
BTW the circuit is clockwise, with pits on the left.

[duke_toaster]

I'll have a go, but the FIA heavily discourage new circuits from being longer than 7km, and the maximum length of straights is 2km with no grandfather rule. Before Hockenheim's mutilation it was just shy around 6.825km, less than 200m shy of Spa.

[Quintin03]

Within the FIA rules such a circuit would be very hard to realise. As most of us don't like designing impossible circuits I think you will get designs different from what you expected. Still it's completely possible. I'll make a try, Actualy got something already though it's not long enough.

[Purist]

Actually, Spa flaunts both those rules, and the grandfather clause is evident in a certain German circuit that still sees plenty of action despite having a 20.83km lap and a 2.86km "straight".

There are a number of very high end 'club" circuits in the US that flaunt the recommended maximum lap length. Miller motorsports Park has a full lap of 7.242km. Genoa Motorsports Park is to have a full lap length of 9.43km. The combined circuit at New Orleans Motorsports Park will be 8.046km. Coyote Wells Race Resort in Southern California (east of San Diego) is to have a 9.817km Grand Prix Circuit. And as Miller has shown, these tracks are being built to a standard that the ALMS, and even Indy Cars could, in theory, run on them.

Sorry to hi-jack things, but I thought this deserved to be pointed out.

Carry on with the challenge.

[ScotsBrutesFan]

No surprise that I've jumped at this given most of my circuit end up larger than intended...

The drawing is to scale, with a constant track width of 16m (2 m wider than I would normally use on a circuit).

S/F : 1163.08
Turn 1 : 317.4
straight : 383.21
Turn 2 : 224.04
Straight : 522.39
Turn 3 : 394.92
Straight : 332.27
Turn 4 : 689.4
Straight : 683.87
Turn 5 : 145.8
Turn 6 : 235.2
Straight : 637.17
Turn7 : 622.2
Turn 8 : 414
Turn 9 : 702.36
Straight : 312.65
Turn 10 : 177.48
Turn 11 : 582.48
Turn 12 : 394.92
Turn 13 : 328.56
Straight : 179.36
Turn 14 : 602.76

The lengths shown are for the centre line of the circuit and are measured in metres.
The overall distance is 10054.52m, or just over 10km.

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by Purist

Actually, Spa flaunts both those rules, and the grandfather clause is evident in a certain German circuit that still sees plenty of action despite having a 20.83km lap and a 2.86km "straight".

There are a number of very high end 'club" circuits in the US that flaunt the recommended maximum lap length. Miller motorsports Park has a full lap of 7.242km. Genoa Motorsports Park is to have a full lap length of 9.43km. The combined circuit at New Orleans Motorsports Park will be 8.046km. Coyote Wells Race Resort in Southern California (east of San Diego) is to have a 9.817km Grand Prix Circuit. And as Miller has shown, these tracks are being built to a standard that the ALMS, and even Indy Cars could, in theory, run on them.

Sorry to hi-jack things, but I thought this deserved to be pointed out.

Carry on with the challenge.

The 7 km rule is only a recomendation you know. And technicaly Spa's longest flat out section is less than 2 km as Eau Rouge-Raidilon slows cars down.

A good design from SBF. No complaints from me.

[dyewat808]

Cheers everybody for the replies!

In terms of the circuit's possibility in being built, it is something I appreciate. In my eyes, its no good for example, building a street circuit, if two cars can't drive along its entire length side-by-side. Otherwise, its then longer a race, but a procession. My kind of thoughts behind the challenge were that it would be a type of knee-jerk reaction to the Tilke abominations of late. The old Hockenheim Ring was something unique (or certainly something different) and I think its a shame that we might not see something like it again.

In terms of the FIA regulations, this challenge is a bit of an impossibility, because of artificial rules which end up stifling creativity, which is annoying. I think longer circuits should gain more recognition from the FIA for the racing they give us, like with what Purist said about a certain German track.

Its sad that something like a "longer-than-10km" track might never be built again. Still, you never know. Things can change very quickly.

[Quintin03]

Something longer than 10 km? The Gotland Ring maybe? This challenge is not an impossible one at all as SBF has shown already.

[dyewat808]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Gotland Ring whoops! That kind of wrecked my point.
And I really like SBF's track design. It's the kind of thing I meant with the challenge, although maybe with more Mulsanne style straights.

[dyewat808]

Actually wait, I just saw the figures. SBF's is exactly the kind of track I'm after. Long, fast and flowing.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Welcome to the board Sir!
We all have different tastes and ideas of track designing, I think you will click a lot with folks like Purist and some other street-circuit enthusiasts.

As for my opinion on this challenge, I'm more of a stadium, club track amateur designer so I can hardly think of a 10Km track, yours there looks more like an airport facility for interspace crafts, but I think it would be fun to race, provided you have sponsorship for plenty of engines and the insurance company from hell.

FIA and FIM rules are more about safety and practicality, who would want to watch a race on a 10 K long circuit with a mile long straight is too deep for me to understand, other than IDM motorcycle race(37 mile lap)

Anyway such a circuit would be more of an engine test rather than a sports competition, I believe cars will be geared to the moon and accidents would be final, motorcycles would not be allowed since maximun average speed for motorcycle circuits is 200kmh and any motorcycle will reach 300km'h in any of the present circuits.

[Purist]

Quintin, Eau Rouge is taken flat-out in F1, and the stretch from La Source to Les Combes is 2030m. It actually may be more than that now with the revisions they did for the 2007 season.

Luiggi, would the Nordschleife be that much of an engine breaker, or have a lap average that far away from 200km/h? So I think we can say that a 10k or more circuit doesn't have to be the reincarnation of AVUS. Then again, just taking out the chicanes, and reinstating the banking, there is a VERY fast 10km circuit most of us are quite familiar with: Monza.

I like that one SBF. It has a great flow to it, and several good, high-speed curves. It would be interesting to see which turns could be taken flat, or near to it.

[dyewat808]

Originally Posted by LuiggiSpeed

Welcome to the board Sir!
We all have different tastes and ideas of track designing, I think you will click a lot with folks like Purist and some other street-circuit enthusiasts.

That is funny - my favourite type of race-tracks are street circuits!!
And I laughed at the interspace bit!

[ScotsBrutesFan]

Originally Posted by Purist

I like that one SBF. It has a great flow to it, and several good, high-speed curves. It would be interesting to see which turns could be taken flat, or near to it.

Here are the circuit corner radii, Please subtract 8m from each value as the dimension is against the centreline of the track.

As such the smallest radius is turn 5 at 57.27m.

[Quintin03]

Now for my entry. It's called the "Alexandria Motor Racing Circuit"* and it's a semi-permanent, semi-purpous built road course inspired on multiple different tracks from real life but also some recent tracks on this forum.
As the name indicate'd it's located southwest of Alexandria, Egypt and should be no less than 11,5 km.
As the challenge specifies the track is mostly very fast and to reach that goal some corners would be banked at and angle of up to 9 degrees. These would be T3,T6 and 7, T11 and 12 and the final corner T32. A such these turns would need inclining run off to keep up with the high safety demands.
North of the circuit would be a motorsport development area. Part of this would be among others a school where succesful karters of the middle east would be able to learn racing in higher classes as well as taking the usual courses. Th concept works with other sports so why wouldn't it here. Further there would be land reserved for motorsport teams.

*Name subject to change if one more apropriate is found.

For reference: the line at the top is 1km long. Track is anticlockwise.

[LuiggiSpeed]

Originally Posted by dyewat808

That is funny - my favourite type of race-tracks are street circuits!!
And I laughed at the interspace bit!

I'm glad you took it lightly , while most of us track dreamers are historians and F1 enthusiats I'm probably the lone nut motorcycle racer that loves purpose built circuits, unfortunately, for us there's little chance of a temporary circuit other than IDM and then again IDM collects a few souls every year, which I'm not in that line. THe irony of it is that every Sunday me and my friends go out to the canyons and do some weird stuff, so I can say I am plenty experienced on road courses!

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by LuiggiSpeed

For us there's little chance of a temporary circuit other than IDM.

You haven't found this thread yet?

These tracks are all relatively safe. Assen makes more severe accidents than most of these. It isn't without danger though. Last year Hengelo had an accident where Joey Litjens broke his arm or something like that unabling him to race motorcycles or do his day job.

Other possibilities are the Irish championships (northern and republic), multiple races in the Czech republic, a few other German races, The Pinksterraces in Oss (one of the races I visit every year), the races at Scarborough, and two rounds of the New Zealand Superbike championship. No getting around it, there's more than enough options open for those who want to race on real roads with their motorcycles.

[Litchfield]

Here is a track I cooked up about a month ago.

Some details:
Name: Waldstromkreis (german for Forest Circuit)
Length: 10.537km
Turns: 15 (7 left, 6 right, 2 LR Complexes)
Straights: S/F is ~1km, "Sweep" is ~ 1.4km, and 9-10 is ~ 1.2km.

The track has some elevation change throughout, some steep and some gradual. From Turn 1 to Turn 2, there is a drop of ~10m, followed by a rise through 2 of ~10m and evening out through 3. There is a drop of ~10m from 3 to the middle of the next straight, and then a flat run through and half way to Turn 5. From there to "Hairpin" is a steady rise of ~40m. "Hairpin" is flat, though there is a ~5m drop to "Snap" and then another 5m to Turn 9. From 9 there is a steady drop of ~30m, but the last 300m to Turn 10 feature a rise of 8m. There is another rise from 10 to 11, where the track plateaus for the run through "Plateau". There is a gradual drop to "Kinks", and then through to 14. The run from 14 through 15 and to the S/F straight is gradually uphill.

Distances shown are estimations. The track is intended to be built in the Black Forest region of Germany, with only the run from "Plateau" to "Kinks" and the S/F straight having permanent seating. Temporary seating along "Sweep", "Hairpin" and Turn 10, would be added for major races. Garages and the pit are to the interior of the S/F.

Thoughts on the track?

[Tathrim]

This is a circuit which needs a description to show how good the driving roads are. I weaas going to post it as a pre-war monster, but I decided that this would be the best place for it.

The track starts half way down Clay Ln. From there, drivers follow the road to a 90 left at Beggarbush hill, before taking the first right twice., sending them back down the hill to the Crowmarsh Hill roundabout, taking the second exit down Potsway.

At the potsway roundabut, take the 2nd exit right to Winterbrook, then the first left at the roundabout. Thsi takes you to the first long blast past Cholsey and Moulsford to a tight, off camber hairpin at Streatley.

From there, drivers are tested with close quaters as they race over Shortlands and Blewbury Hill to the roundabout at Rowstack, taking the 3rd exit right, up milton hill, onto the A34.

When on the A34, continue until you reach the A4074. Once ont he A4074, follow the road for 6 roundabouts, before taking the first exit at the Elm Bridge roundabout in Benson. After that, Move up Oxford Road and Brook St, taking a right at Sheperd's Hut, and finishing the lap.

it's a little long, at 66.5 km/41.5 mi, but I was thinking the town-to-town themed races of the pre war era when I thought it up.

Linky

[Quintin03]

This could never pas the FIA's tests. Which is why I like it. Not the best I've seen but impresive enough you could find suitable road paterns.

[dyewat808]

Now for my entry. It's called the "Alexandria Motor Racing Circuit"* and it's a semi-permanent, semi-purpous built road course inspired on multiple different tracks from real life but also some recent tracks on this forum.

Wow at the attention to detail. What I really like about this is that it has a location in the REAL world. That means that site, location etc has all been taken account of.

And I like the fact that it also has a temporary part. That top-left bit reminds me of Suzuka.

Here is a track I cooked up about a month ago.

Some details:
Name: Waldstromkreis (german for Forest Circuit)
Length: 10.537km
Turns: 15 (7 left, 6 right, 2 LR Complexes)
Straights: S/F is ~1km, "Sweep" is ~ 1.4km, and 9-10 is ~ 1.2km.

I love it, Litchfield. My fave part is the little kink, the "Sweep".
Also to my liking is the high number of straights, too, and their length. Long, fast straights - egg-scellent!

I'm gonna put my crack at the challenge up in the next few days.

[Tathrim]

Originally Posted by Quintin03

This could never pas the FIA's tests. Which is why I like it. Not the best I've seen but impresive enough you could find suitable road paterns.

What about a slightly shorter version, woiuld this pass the tests of the FIA?

Linky

[Purist]

I wouldn't worry about that Tathrim. The FIA would basically have you cut out the "best" parts, AND substantially shorten it. Just getting a circuit of 10km approved would be a challenge, so 66km, or anything near it, simply wouldn't fly with them, which is a shame.

[Quintin03]

Originally Posted by dyewat808

Wow at the attention to detail. What I really like about this is that it has a location in the REAL world. That means that site, location etc has all been taken account of.

And I like the fact that it also has a temporary part. That top-left bit reminds me of Suzuka.

Thanks, the top part was inspired on Suzuka though in reverse. Can anyone spot the other sources of inspiration?

Detail? I made it in about 4 hours. Detail comes from a great free piece of software called Paint.net. I had nothing to do with that detail.