V8ST - 2014/15

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by pukekoheracer

Capable drivers and funding don't always go tegether. You need the Complete Package, hard to come by. More work needed off track than on it

So very true PR, which is exactly why premier category racing is still struggling in this country in all classes including TRS which could only muster 3 NZ drivers amongst 23 cars, last season.

The fact of the matter is that in both the TLX and TL category, with the exception only of Bargwana, you have journey-man racer at best, and most of them can not afford to be racing at that level anyway. The same is also true for the tail end of V8ST, which is why they to are struggling to have more than 15 competitors.

[promax]

hmm so the top level is only for the rich?

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Dav1s

The queue of capable drivers floating around in NZ with a lack of funds is a long one my friend

I can personally vouch for that, even ones with multiple championships to their credit.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

hmm so the top level is only for the rich?

and/or well connected! Look at Formula 1, it's exactly the same.

[socram]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

and/or well connected! Look at Formula 1, it's exactly the same.

It wasn't always so as anyone who can remember the pre Ecclestone days will testify. No-one can doubt that BE galvanised the F1 teams into being more professional, but as with any/many modern classes, it is a mixture of closed shop, rule bound and rich, but hi-tech to the extent that all individuality has been wiped out in an effort to introduce so called parity.
Many of us can still remember when for some, F1 was a driver and one or two mechanics, a car or van and a trailer and as long as the car was under 2500cc in the 1950's and in 1961, 1500cc, there was a chance of competing - and getting a modest amount of start money.
The same applied to saloon cars and sports cars. As long as the engine wasn't too large or boosted, it ran.
Professionalism whether in motorsport, soccer, rugby or cricket or any other sport is a double edged sword.
Trying to control the sport by technical or financial means these days has just dulled the sport, (include effectively, all one make racing) which is why there is such huge growing interest in any form of classic and historic motorsport and a shrinking support for most modern forms of the sport.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by socram

It wasn't always so as anyone who can remember the pre Ecclestone days will testify. No-one can doubt that BE galvanised the F1 teams into being more professional, but as with any/many modern classes, it is a mixture of closed shop, rule bound and rich, but hi-tech to the extent that all individuality has been wiped out in an effort to introduce so called parity.
Many of us can still remember when for some, F1 was a driver and one or two mechanics, a car or van and a trailer and as long as the car was under 2500cc in the 1950's and in 1961, 1500cc, there was a chance of competing - and getting a modest amount of start money.
The same applied to saloon cars and sports cars. As long as the engine wasn't too large or boosted, it ran.
Professionalism whether in motorsport, soccer, rugby or cricket or any other sport is a double edged sword.
Trying to control the sport by technical or financial means these days has just dulled the sport, (include effectively, all one make racing) which is why there is such huge growing interest in any form of classic and historic motorsport and a shrinking support for most modern forms of the sport.

Where's the "like" button?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by promax

hmm so the top level is only for the rich?

The faster you go the more money someone spends, always been the same, and if the people spending the money cant drive they pay someone who can in way or another, and thats another thing thats never changed in my 50 years in the sport.

[promax]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

I can personally vouch for that, even ones with multiple championships to their credit.

well if they can afford to race the season (which they did) who has any right to say they shouldn't be there? young guys like Cooley, McLaughlin and Holden might actually surprise a few people.. if given the right opportunity to shine

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

The faster you go the more money someone spends, always been the same, and if the people spending the money cant drive they pay someone who can in way or another, and thats another thing thats never changed in my 50 years in the sport.

The faster you go the more you BEND THE RULES.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

well if they can afford to race the season (which they did) who has any right to say they shouldn't be there?

Sorry PM, I just don't get that. Who are they? Please explain.

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

The faster you go the more you BEND THE RULES.

Let me offer another perspective.

The more money you have, the more you RULE THE BENDS!

Because all things being equal, that's where the speed comes from.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

The faster you go the more you BEND THE RULES.

Sigh.


.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

The faster you go the more you BEND THE RULES.

Plonker. There, I said it.

[promax]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Sorry PM, I just don't get that. Who are they? Please explain.

lol the list of detractors isn't hard to find.. just read any NZV8 or ST thread on this site apart from Bargs.. every other driver is accused of being a club racer and been told they shouldn't be competing at this level should. haters gonna hate

[bluespur]

on_to_it - have a look at post #151 above where it is suggested that those in TLX and TL as well as rear of V8ST field are clubracers and cant afford to be there. Perhaps that is right but then perhaps that is the level that we are able to support with an ability to increase fields.

as for the BEND THE RULES comments - it has been my experience that the more professional a team is, or in fact has a reasonable level of sponsor $$$ behind it, then the closer to the rules they run - there is nothing wrong with that - bending is not breaking, bending is doing your homework and exploiting a badly written rule.

deliberate breaking is CHEATING. Bending is not Cheating - might be immoral in some cases but as long as a rule is not broken but exploited then that is acceptable.

I could argue that a competitor is not cheating until the judicial system says he is!

[on_to_it]

Originally Posted by promax

lol the list of detractors isn't hard to find.. just read any NZV8 or ST thread on this site apart from Bargs.. every other driver is accused of being a club racer and been told they shouldn't be competing at this level should. haters gonna hate

Thanks, I see now. You were responding to Marks post but you referenced mine (which was about something else).

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Thanks, I see now. You were responding to Marks post but you referenced mine (which was about something else).

Hmmmmmm Julian must be feeling a bit testy right now, applying the basic rule of warfare i.e.. "Attack is the best method of defense".

Nothing changes, nothing will, even resorted to repeating my "Haters Gonna Hate" phrase.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by bluespur

Deliberate breaking is CHEATING. Bending is not Cheating - might be immoral in some cases but as long as a rule is not broken but exploited then that is acceptable.

I could argue that a competitor is not cheating until the judicial system says he is!

Case in point: Team Oracle USA

[promax]

Originally Posted by on_to_it

Thanks, I see now. You were responding to Marks post but you referenced mine (which was about something else).

err yeah.. i wouldn't quote mark.. he seems to think I like mx5s? which is rather amusing

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hmmmmmm Julian must be feeling a bit testy right now, applying the basic rule of warfare i.e.. "Attack is the best method of defense".

Nothing changes, nothing will, even resorted to repeating my "Haters Gonna Hate" phrase.

Thats the v8st method.I can see how you will not be impartial.

[promax]

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/haters-gonna-hate

About

Haters Gonna Hate is a catchphrase used to indicate a disregard for hostile remarks addressed towards the speaker. This expression has its roots in American hip hop, and spawned an image macro series featuring pictures of celebrities, animals and cartoon characters strutting or posing in a conceited manner.

Origin

While not necessarily the direct progenitor of the meme, the phrase “Haters Gonna Hate” first appeared in the pop song “Playas Gon’ Play” by 3LW in the year 2000

[JamesK]

Just found this on Highland's web site.

4 June 2014 CIRCUIT RESOLUTION

On Friday May 23rd 2014 representatives from Highlands Motorsport Park, Pukekohe Park Raceway, Taupo Motorsport Park, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway Ruapuna, Levels Raceway, Teretonga Park Raceway, Manfeild Autocourse and Hampton Downs Motorsport Park met prior to the AGM of Motorsport New Zealand to discuss various matters arising within the Circuit Owners Group.

With the exception of Taupo Motorsport Park, which abstained from the vote due to existing contracts being in place with the BNT V8 SuperTourers, the following resolution was agreed by all of the above named circuits.

"We the undersigned circuit owners have resolved the following: Unless V8 SuperTourers and NZV8TC TLX cars resolve to come together and compete with each other as one race and ultimately one championship, then the circuit owners will not allow their circuits to be used by these classes individually.

The decision has been taken independently of Motorsport New Zealand and is unanimous amongst the circuit owners."

Anyone got any updates on what's happening.

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by JamesK

Just found this on Highland's web site.

4 June 2014 CIRCUIT RESOLUTION

On Friday May 23rd 2014 representatives from Highlands Motorsport Park, Pukekohe Park Raceway, Taupo Motorsport Park, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway Ruapuna, Levels Raceway, Teretonga Park Raceway, Manfeild Autocourse and Hampton Downs Motorsport Park met prior to the AGM of Motorsport New Zealand to discuss various matters arising within the Circuit Owners Group.

With the exception of Taupo Motorsport Park, which abstained from the vote due to existing contracts being in place with the BNT V8 SuperTourers, the following resolution was agreed by all of the above named circuits.

"We the undersigned circuit owners have resolved the following: Unless V8 SuperTourers and NZV8TC TLX cars resolve to come together and compete with each other as one race and ultimately one championship, then the circuit owners will not allow their circuits to be used by these classes individually.

The decision has been taken independently of Motorsport New Zealand and is unanimous amongst the circuit owners."

Anyone got any updates on what's happening.

Looks like the Circuit owners have killed it then... good on them making a stand...wonder how long it will last....until the first one breaks rank is my guess.

[GT 86]

Originally Posted by JamesK

Just found this on Highland's web site.

4 June 2014 CIRCUIT RESOLUTION

On Friday May 23rd 2014 representatives from Highlands Motorsport Park, Pukekohe Park Raceway, Taupo Motorsport Park, Powerbuilt Tools Raceway Ruapuna, Levels Raceway, Teretonga Park Raceway, Manfeild Autocourse and Hampton Downs Motorsport Park met prior to the AGM of Motorsport New Zealand to discuss various matters arising within the Circuit Owners Group.

With the exception of Taupo Motorsport Park, which abstained from the vote due to existing contracts being in place with the BNT V8 SuperTourers, the following resolution was agreed by all of the above named circuits.

"We the undersigned circuit owners have resolved the following: Unless V8 SuperTourers and NZV8TC TLX cars resolve to come together and compete with each other as one race and ultimately one championship, then the circuit owners will not allow their circuits to be used by these classes individually.

The decision has been taken independently of Motorsport New Zealand and is unanimous amongst the circuit owners."

Anyone got any updates on what's happening.

So I take it the COG equivelants will be emailing the NZRC and Rally extreme to make them race together at the same event and while we are on the subject have the COG emailed the organisers of the two different enduro events to do the same.

These guys must have got their training or PRc skills from the old boys club at MSNZ.

Take your blinkers off COG, V8ST and TLX/NZV8 will not run in the same class but im sure the same event. You cant have these TLX or NZV8 cars running with ST, thats like running formula ford with TRS. These are two very different championships for two very different types of cars, budgets and drivers.

[Goat Boy]

At least the football is on...