F1 What the Fans Think

[wolfhound]

I came across this article by a fan on James Allen's web site.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/0...e-a-fans-view/

I find myself agreeing with all he has said.

Which drives fans away more engine sound or high ticket prices?

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I came across this article by a fan on James Allen's web site.

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/0...e-a-fans-view/

I find myself agreeing with all he has said.

Which drives fans away more engine sound or high ticket prices?

Not just high ticket prices, but high 'watch on TV prices'.

Don't have Sky, don't want Sky.

The price is MUCH more relevant than the noise.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by JamesH

Not just high ticket prices, but high 'watch on TV prices'.

Don't have Sky, don't want Sky.

The price is MUCH more relevant than the noise.

Ditto this!

[JamesH]

Originally Posted by wnut

Ditto this!

Bloody hell, that's twice we have agreed today.

[Paradise City]

High ticket prices and TV prices of course.

[bella]

high cost for viewing sport = low value for teams and sponsors
low cost for viewing sport = better value for teams and sponsors.

people who lose out in the first instance = sponsors, who have nobody watching their logos appear on telly, fans who can't afford to watch the things the logos are appearing on on telly, and the teams who can't get people to put their logos on their things so they appear on telly.
people who lose out in the second instance = people trying to monetarise the sport and event.

whilst there is someone at the top trying to get a return for their investment, the money will be flowing the wrong way.

[S griffin]

High prices and the fact the races are so far away.

[nobster]

Pay tv, no thanks!
Expensive tickets, no thanks!

[wolfhound]

Vijay Mallya has joined the list of team bosses who have come out in favour of using new media to increase the popularity of F1. He thinks that Bernie needs to be educated about Twitter, Facebook etc.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115442

You can't teach an old dog new tricks, I suspect that is that is a major part of the problem.

[Paradise City]

It doesn't take a genius to set up a blasted twitter a/c does it? Eccelstone should order the nearest intern within earshot to get cracking.

[S griffin]

Get rid of Bernie for a start

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

It doesn't take a genius to set up a blasted twitter a/c does it? Eccelstone should order the nearest intern within earshot to get cracking.

BE doesn't want social media because he can't 'monetise' it, he sees it as free output in the F1 of today, there has to be a dollar in it to do anything.

[chillibowl]

Which is odd to say the least.
If he doesn't see the value of increasing the sponsners exposure and if doesn't see that by offering more value to those sponsors he charge them more money perhaps it is time for him to leave.

Seriously what self respecting promoter can't figure out how to make more money with a bigger megaphone?

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Seriously what self respecting promoter can't figure out how to make more money with a bigger megaphone?

Bernie is old skool. He just picks up a telephone and asks the person at the other end for $50M and they give it to him. He couldn't be bothered with anything else.

F1 needs rid of him.

[Moneyseeker]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Which is odd to say the least.
If he doesn't see the value of increasing the sponsners exposure and if doesn't see that by offering more value to those sponsors he charge them more money perhaps it is time for him to leave.

Seriously what self respecting promoter can't figure out how to make more money with a bigger megaphone?

I don't think FOM/CVC are that bothered by sponsors to be honest. They get paid upfront by circuits and TV companies before a car has turned a wheel, therefore sponsorship is not something they have exploited to a large degree aside from a few official partners.

The amount that any sponsors would put in is (in relative terms) a drop in the ocean to FOM and would probably be more hassle than it's worth to them - sadly this is what the current business model of F1 produces, they can afford to be complacent about promotion as it makes no difference to their bottom line.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

I don't think FOM/CVC are that bothered by sponsors to be honest. They get paid upfront by circuits and TV companies before a car has turned a wheel, therefore sponsorship is not something they have exploited to a large degree aside from a few official partners.

they can afford to be complacent about promotion as it makes no difference to their bottom line.

I thought one of FOMs jobs was promotion but it doesn't seem to do any. I am sure the teams would like more exposure to fans as it should lead to more eyes seeing their cars and hense more sponsor income for the teams. If all FOM seem to do with new media is remove F1 clips from you tube how is F1 going to find new fans if they can't see F1 without having to pay an arm and aleg for it.

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

If all FOM seem to do with new media is remove F1 clips from you tube how is F1 going to find new fans if they can't see F1 without having to pay an arm and aleg for it.

That's just it. I (like many, while some refused to) followed F1 from free to air to pay tv because I like it. Sure out children may see it because they have access to the races, but for people like me when I was young (my father isn't interested in F1) , what access will they have to the races? How will they know if they like it or not? With just a brief news clip, or the occasional highlights package I think very few kids will decide they want to start watching F1.

But I suppose Bernie won't have to worry about it, because this reduction in viewers will lag behind by some years. It is beginning now, but it will probably take 15-20 years to hit its absolute low in viewership. Even with massive change now it could still take 5-10 years to reverse the trend. How many kids, teenagers or adults in their 20's watch F1 now?

I saw a news article last night about media, and apparently teens view more programming online than from traditional television. On demand, youtube, downloads, this is all happening right now and F1 is falling behind. I don't really care too much, but my biggest concern is that with viewership falling the potential is there for more stupid changes to F1, and being in such a small country as New Zealand, if the money isn't there to broadcast it, we may lose it altogether.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by mikuni

That's just it. I (like many, while some refused to) followed F1 from free to air to pay tv because I like it. Sure out children may see it because they have access to the races, but for people like me when I was young (my father isn't interested in F1) , what access will they have to the races? How will they know if they like it or not? With just a brief news clip, or the occasional highlights package I think very few kids will decide they want to start watching F1.

But I suppose Bernie won't have to worry about it, because this reduction in viewers will lag behind by some years. It is beginning now, but it will probably take 15-20 years to hit its absolute low in viewership. Even with massive change now it could still take 5-10 years to reverse the trend. How many kids, teenagers or adults in their 20's watch F1 now?

I saw a news article last night about media, and apparently teens view more programming online than from traditional television. On demand, youtube, downloads, this is all happening right now and F1 is falling behind. I don't really care too much, but my biggest concern is that with viewership falling the potential is there for more stupid changes to F1, and being in such a small country as New Zealand, if the money isn't there to broadcast it, we may lose it altogether.

Formula One, and to extent motor sport in general, is failing to reach out to young people. Most kids I know, including my own, have zero interest in Formula One. It's in total contrast to my generation. While the sport itself must shoulder some of the blame - c.f. much of what you've said above - there are other factors at work too. Sadly, I do foresee a decline in 'live racing' as we know it, probably to be usurped by something SIM/games based. The spectator growth in this area is jaw dropping... and particularly among the young generation.

[jmlima]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

...
Which drives fans away more engine sound or high ticket prices?

From my view what drove me away was that F1 turned into a choreographed show, a parade of money trying to generate more money.

There are so much silliness around F1 these days, so much being done to make it a great TV show, that they would probably be better taking it he full monty and making it a reality show.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by jmlima

From my view what drove me away was that F1 turned into a choreographed show, a parade of money trying to generate more money.

There are so much silliness around F1 these days, so much being done to make it a great TV show, that they would probably be better taking it he full monty and making it a reality show.

And with this kind of thing run as the main headline at autosport.com today, it's hard to disagree with you.

[Greem]

So... Smedley talking about how Williams F1 have improved by changing the team's working culture is "silly"?

You've lost me there, davyboy.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Greem

So... Smedley talking about how Williams F1 have improved by changing the team's working culture is "silly"?

You've lost me there, davyboy.

It's the trite F1 PR speak we get day in day out from these teams. Maybe 'blame culture' is code for Renault engines ? Who knows... but I'm guessing the fact they've opted for Merc power plants this year had nothing to do with their improved performance... it was all down to the blame culture

[Moneyseeker]

One of the things that I believe has impacted on the 'show' to a massive degree but is not often mentioned in the fan surveys is that the teams have almost eliminated all the 'unknowns' that previously existed in F1.

The combination of telemetary and pit to car radio has created minutely managed races both the from the pit wall and back at the factory, where all systems and scenarios are constantly evaluated.

Although more of a factor this year than in previous years, reliability has increased to such a degree that the chances of lower mid-grid teams scoring any points has been more or less eliminated - Bianchi at Monaco was a very rare example.

Race modelling - test drivers are running in the simulators pre-race to evaluate strategies and scenario's. I rember Gary Paffett being interviewed at the British GP a couple of years ago when McLaren were bringing an update and McLaren were running the simulator inbetween practice sessions to evaluate changes to the car.

Although not always reliable - weather radar has to a lesser extent enabled teams to manage weather condition that were previously a complete unknown.

Some pundits have offered the suggestion that reverse grids should be used in F1 - this wouldn't work - why? Because the teams would be able to simulate the gird, be aware of the timings and would all be aiming for the slowest lap to get pole!

We keep talking talking about aero, tyres, etc to improve the show but actually I believe we need to eliminate all outside assistance and communication with the cars during the race - no pit to car radio, no telemetary, no links back to the factory, no simulator use during race weekends, no weather radar. The teams should turn up with the cars, prep them, race them and take what the race and circuit throws at them.

To keep safety as a priority, flag lights should still appear on the dash along with a safety car light. Car faults should be displayed on the dash as in any other car to give warning of faults that may compromise the safety of the car.

But all in all, it should be that when the visor goes down the driver is left alone to drive the race, make decisions and manage problems.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by davyboy

And with this kind of thing run as the main headline at autosport.com today, it's hard to disagree with you.

I among others have long criticized Williams for having a revolving door policy and not valuing their staff and their contributions.
Ferrari I think have exactly the same problem.

I guess that Smedley knows from bitter experience the truth of:

"When you have a blame culture, people spend 60-90 per cent of their effort covering what they have done rather than doing anything positive and understanding the problem, making the car go quicker or making operations slicker.
"I know that because I've seen it many times before, but if you actually say to people 'look, that's my job, the buck stops with me, it's actually my fault' no matter who made the call situation is diffused very quickly."

Yes, the Merc bit of the culture is a sure boost, the proof of the pudding will be to see how the team continues once this advantage is reduced.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Moneyseeker

Race modelling - test drivers are running in the simulators pre-race to evaluate strategies and scenario's. I rember Gary Paffett being interviewed at the British GP a couple of years ago when McLaren were bringing an update and McLaren were running the simulator inbetween practice sessions to evaluate changes to the car.

Although not always reliable - weather radar has to a lesser extent enabled teams to manage weather condition that were previously a complete unknown.

But all in all, it should be that when the visor goes down the driver is left alone to drive the race, make decisions and manage problems.

I think that you are right on the money here.
The large teams have succeeded in limiting all the uncertainties of motor racing down to a point where we are actually watching and economy and reliability trial.

The greatest investment results in the best car, and all the rules ensure that the best car wins. It is not a motor race though, GPs are now reliability trials where the car that can run the fastest within the fuel and tyre parameters will win. Money has ensured that the playing field has been skewed to the point where only the application of expensive research matters, we no longer have a sporting contest of driver skill and therein lies the problem!

Racing or reliability trial?