engine specs?

[kmchow]

It's been discussed before how a 2L engine can produce 240-320hp in S2000 or ETCC trim,but can someone again highlight some of the things they do to get such high hp numbers? I've heard doubts before, but Honda has a 2L engine that puts about 240hp in their S2000. As I once wondered, could the engine just be a downgraded ST engine dating from the early 90s??

To save money, couldn't someone just basically slot a S2000 engine into a Civic and race it in the BTCC? Isn't that's what happening right now with the Type R Civics? It may not be champioship winning, but it looks competitive on paper.

I've also heard of the terms of the engine being blueprinted (same as mapped?)? What about balanced? I recall one of these terms means that the engine is torn apart and rebuilt while ensuring that all the tolerances are within company specs?

[MaxSport]

Good question,KMC.

Current Super 2000 rules cars are putting out 270-280hp? I am not sure what is done to a 2 liter motor to make it do what it does.

I just do sponsorships and I have never built an engine, but I too am interested in how they get these hp numbers.

Kurt

[kmchow]

I recall flipping through an issue of the defunct Supertouring magazine and they mentioned fuel injection and ECU mapping plays a significant role in generating the extra hp.

Wow, 280hp huh? That's more than I expected?

[touringlegend]

I was amazed to see the Honda Accord Super Tourer from around '96 had 330BHP - this was according to a Touring Car book.

I have no idea what they do to the engines though, if I said I'd be lying!

[JMeissner]

The Honda Accord Thomas Engström is driving in the STCC this year must be the quickest ever ST car in topspeed and acceleration. You should see that car down the long straights, just roaring past the Volvo's, Vauxhall's etc... And they are using some sort of boost mapping, push one button and fore a short while the engine gives more power...

[Sodemo]

I would seriously doubt that 330BHP was ever produced by the Honda 96 engine, I have the stats for their 2000 spec engine and that was quoted as having 325BHP by Honda themselves, I have a few of those "touring car yearbooks" and they are full of inaccuracies. Another BTCC item riddled with mistakes are those "On-board" videos from 94 - 95, the commentator stated that Church corner at Thruxton was taken at 180MPH, which is total bull, as even in the last year of Super Touring in 2000 the cars had a TOP SPEED of 160 -? mph at Thruxton.

As far as the engine regs regarding what the first poster said about the S2000, I'm sure the engine like the Honda Accord type R has variable valve timing, and incorporates Honda's V-Tec technology (like a naturally aspirated turbo) which i doubt is legal in the BTCC, though i could be wrong.

[JMeissner]

Endeed it is not allowed, "The Monster"

[redshoes]

V-TEC isn't allowed but then it's not realy needed either. The idea of V-TEC from a road point of view is to give it make the car more drivable and give better fuel economy at low revs/speed plus give it more power at high revs. On the racetrack the low-speed characteristics are never needed, the engine is tuned for maximum power/torque only.

[kmchow]

The Accord ('96 especially) may not have 330bhp, but I seem to recall they were more powerful than the Volvos from the same period. However, the '96 Hondas (and possibly before/after) always seemed to suffer from poor aerodynamics? They were just never as good as the rest. But I recall the last generation (99 or 00) Renaults at the least, had something like 330bhp. However, I recall an anonymous ST poster on this forum said the last 10-20 bhp really caused the ST engines to go down in reliability?? Ahh, this is really a very interesting discussion. I hope it doesn't get moved!!

[touringlegend]

Pre-99 Accord was bigger than the new model Accord as far as I know, I remember Thompson saying the new car was much better in handling because it was smaller.

[StuiE]

From John Tipler's "Racing Cars" and " Touring Cars"

'96 Accord - 325bhp @ 8500
'98 Accord - 290bhp

How could they DROP power?

[StuiE]

Originally posted by kmchow
However, I recall an anonymous ST poster on this forum said the last 10-20 bhp really caused the ST engines to go down in reliability??

True. I dont know if it reletes to ST's so much (because of rev limits) but the stresses on the engine go up almost exponentially when going over the standard redline. Making power in an engine is all about getting the most fuel/air mixture in as possible: using huge injectors, quad throttle bodies, High compression pistions, no air filters, forged pistons, ..., yada, yada ya getting that kind of power out of an NA 4 costs lots of $$$

[Alfa Fan]

I heard the 2000 Honda Accord could do 340bhp if really pushed. It took reliability down to about 10% chance of finishing the Sprint Race though I heard.

[Eddie_harasym]

Its all about engine life when pushing as much bhp out of a NASP 2.0litre.

The figures can be obtainable in a standard 2.0litre road car, but you are lowering the safety factor of components greatly thus reducing component life span.

[Nissan]

ST engines can produce between 295bhp to 330bhp, the 95 Cavaliers put out about 295bhp from the Swindon engine.

I too have been told from a reliable source that the 98 Honda produced if not 330 bhp pretty close to it, and the 2000 Mondeos similar, the main difference being the lower bhp engines need minimal rebuilds during a year, but the 330 bhp engines every 300 - 400 kms.

Most ST's in Formula Saloons have a minimum of 305 bhp.

[kmchow]

That's why I was less impressed with the S2000 when it was first introduced. Everyone was saying the 240hp was incredible for an engine. Meanwhile, I was thinking '93 ST cars already had 240hp. So given another 7 years (making yr 2000), surely the technology would have improved and costs have gone down to the point where they can release a street version of an engine that has 240 but has excellent reliability and durability?

Back to the anonymouse source, he claimed Renault was spending something like 10-40k GBP on trying to go from about 320 to 330-340hp. If the anonymous poster was telling the truth, he/she must be a part of Renault or the engine builder for the BTCC Renaults? Who cared for the Renault engines from '98-'99?

[K-sport Racing]

Alright well I have to say, I am building an Accord and I found the secret to building motor to be perfect. I am not sure if they can modify their engines a great deal but with the things I am doing to the motor with out turbo charging it will be around 300 plus HP. that is with full balancing with pistons rods and crank shaft with seals, Cams with lifter springs with higher lift. pullys cam gears fuel Larger fuel rail injectors manifold with a cold air setup with straight exhaust with minimal back pressure. oh forgot to mention port and polishing heads. this is just the perofrmance you can get out of the motor. with transmission upgrades you will fly


Aj

K-sport Racing

[touringlegend]

Originally posted by kmchow
Who cared for the Renault engines from '98-'99?

Sodemo built the engines, and they look after the Vauxhall's nowadays.

[Vatanen]

Originally posted by gtr69
From John Tipler's "Racing Cars" and " Touring Cars"

'96 Accord - 325bhp @ 8500
'98 Accord - 290bhp

How could they DROP power?

I think you'll find John Tipler's book is full of inaccuracies sadly.

[Dani Filth]

in the race cars is important the power output but also is the power and torque graphs ... in race cars is quite different from the road cars ... and this I think is the reason that the Honda S2000 engine is not suited to touring car racing ..
The ETCC spec the cars are with "minor" modification to the street cars ... the cars are homologated in the FIA Group N and must be build in more than 2500 units and are modified using a kit homologated for Super2000 .... other fact that modifies the power output.... the compression ratio .. which is 11:1 at the max. .. the number of cylinders(in ETCC is a bit strange the 4 cylinders Alfa is ,still the more powerfull than the 6 cyl. BMW) max 6 cyl.. ... and the rev limiter ... now the 6 cyl have a limit of 9000rpm the 5 cyl Volvo 8750rpm and teh 4 cyl Alfa,Honda,Nissan and other 4 cyl engines 8500rpm ...

[kmchow]

Regarding Dani's comments about the S2000 not being a suitable touring car. AFAIK, ST cars weren't known for their high torque either? So offhand, I can't understand why a S2000 would not make a good ST car?

It would be interesting to see a S2000 engine in a Honda Civic sedan. Now that would really bring back the ST memories?

[Dani Filth]

the road version is not suitable .. I think is the power delivery is more street like .... if they tune-it .. modified electronics .. engine management ... it could compete ... it's a 2.0L engine doesn't it ... I was refering to the street legal engine ...