Middle age men and Hot Hatchbacks

[GORDON STREETER]

Once you get used to using the torque band on the VW GOLF n POLO diesel Bluemotion range you can nip along at a fair rate of knots after pulling away from several "performance" cars out of a corner !
And get amazing MPG !

[bella]

diesels are more or less impractical now because of those silly filters though. that's a big chunk of the reason i've ended up with a petrol car - fuel figures may be better but unless you drive it in a manner with keeping the filters clean the cost of replacing those and sorting that out every five minutes makes them totally pointless.

if you look at fuel as a cost per 100 miles, in the uk there's not all that much difference between running a petrol car and a diesel one. if you do any overseas miles then the difference is obviously far greater.

oh and the engine noise is a crime i think by nature choosing diesel as a method of propulsion for your hot hatch instantly renders it lukewarm

[terence]

Audi A/S3,very understated in a dark colour ran one for three years ,never a problem despite being a chipped 1.8Turbo. Great fun around the old Silverstone GP circuit.In fact,of the cars shown,you wouldn't really get away with it in the Fiat,but you would have a lot of fun.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by bella

diesels are more or less impractical now because of those silly filters though. that's a big chunk of the reason i've ended up with a petrol car - fuel figures may be better but unless you drive it in a manner with keeping the filters clean the cost of replacing those and sorting that out every five minutes makes them totally pointless.

Bella you will see that I made that point on particulate filters on a thread a couple of weeks ago and I agree with what you say.
However there's no denying that oil burners have come a long way !

[garcon]

If you want a hot hatch to destroy all others, look up the details of the Subaru Impreza Cosworth.

The sector is pretty healthy at the moment. RenaultSport's offerings are still superb even though their latest models seem to have put a bit of weight on. Of the VAG offerings I actually like the Octavia vRS as an overall package. A bit bigger than the Golf, but just as capable. There's a new Focus ST out soon, but sadly it won't have that lovely Volvo sourced 5 pot. And this month's EVO magazine introduced the details of the next Astra VXR - 260+bhp and fwd!

[dtype38]

Some interesting offerings there, but I'm not sure Garcon that you're quite getting the hang of finding something "understated" so that a greying middle age man can drive it without looking too out of place.... and there is the question of insurance group!

[dtype38]

A little downmarket from the Focus ST would be the Fiesta ST, but living not far from Dagenham it might cause brains to explode if an unmodified one was seen in these parts!!

As for a small diesel... is this filter thing really that bad? Seems odd to sell cars as run-arounds that can't just be used as run-arounds....

.

[bella]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Bella you will see that I made that point on particulate filters on a thread a couple of weeks ago and I agree with what you say.
However there's no denying that oil burners have come a long way !

you definitely aren't the only one making noise about that! i think the problem with diesels is that all the improvement in performance, noise, and efficiency has been countered with these filters. i barely use the turbo in a diesel, so you can imagine what a mess the engine is in, let alone some girly filters.

Originally Posted by garcon

RenaultSport's offerings are still superb even though their latest models seem to have put a bit of weight on.

for what it's worth, a guy at work picked a second hand megane renaultsport f1 thingy up on a trade deal for utter peanuts (probably because it's yellow) just for a laugh, and he has spent weeks trying to get it to understeer. as yet, he's been unsuccessful. however, it IS bright yellow and he admits to being ashamed of it in car parks and only tends to drive it under the cover of darkness

[garcon]

Originally Posted by dtype38

Some interesting offerings there, but I'm not sure Garcon that you're quite getting the hang of finding something "understated" so that a greying middle age man can drive it without looking too out of place.... and there is the question of insurance group!

Fair point.

If you have money to burn, I think one car that fits the understated requirement is the latest Golf R. It depends whether you consider well over thirty grand as too steep for a hot hatch.

Although I would say the Impreza is relatively understated in the flesh, especially in that dark grey metallic. When I say relatively, I mean relatively for a car that reaches 60mph in under 4 seconds....

[bella]

to be honest, garc, if my old man turned up with an impreza i'd probably laugh at him

without wanting to sound, er... rude... does it not depend how old you are? my aforementioned old boy is approaching 60 (don't tell him, he's still in denial) and he freely admits his reactions are slowing down and he can't drive as fast as he used to. as such if he was going to get a raging lunatic car he'd want one that did what he was expecting, when he was expecting it and with HUGE brakes to make up for his reactions.

obviously it depends what you're used to but with that in mind... would a subaru loonywagon actually be one of the more sensible choices??

ps. as for insurance groups, if the golf r is anything like the audi s3 it's in the same insurance group as pastor maldonado. thank god for trade insurance...

[Peter Mallett]

Is there a Bentley Continental hatchback?

[nicanary]

I too thought that some of the suggestions might be a little too "lairy" for your purposes. RenaultSport, VXR, ST etc., that's why the Volvo C30 with the 5-pot would be right up your street.

The particulate filter argument still rages - I have a bog-standard Golf 1.6tdi and do mainly very short journeys (2/3 miles)but lots of them.I'm in traffic for about 60/70% of the time, but the warning light for the filter has only come on once in the 14 months I've had the car.I did what the handbook says, 50mph for 10 mins , and the light went out.The dealer confirmed that this would do the trick.

As Winner would say "calm down dear".

[garcon]

Originally Posted by bella

to be honest, garc, if my old man turned up with an impreza i'd probably laugh at him

And rightly so.

Fair point on the suitable car thing though - with 4wd and huge brakes it does tend to protect many an ordinary driver when ambition surpasses talent.

Not technically a hatch, but perhaps the latest STI saloon would be more appropriate - can be spec'd without the lairy rear wing and is no more in your face than the Audi S cars and suchlike, all be it not as nice inside.

Problem is, the STI may be monumentally capable but for the same running costs and lower depreciation you could buy a used M3 (the latest V8 one, E90/E92 series for those who know their BMWs) - and there's simply no pretending the STI can compete with that.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by bella

i barely use the turbo in a diesel, so you can imagine what a mess the engine is in, let alone some girly filters.

Really? You barely use the turbo? I'm not sure that's even possible in the Fabia, peak torque is at 1900rpm so the turbo is on boost pretty quickly. It's been ages since I've driven a laggy turbo diesel (think it was our old pool car - Mondeo estate)

[bella]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Really? You barely use the turbo? I'm not sure that's even possible in the Fabia, peak torque is at 1900rpm so the turbo is on boost pretty quickly. It's been ages since I've driven a laggy turbo diesel (think it was our old pool car - Mondeo estate)

yeah, my old one did a fair speed and picked up decently without the turbo needing to kick in, so i could shortshift. after it tried to end it all on the autoroute and had the turbo replaced it only picked up if you blipped the throttle before you put your foot down properly, so you drive around that really. as soon as the turbo kicks in i tend to lift off mostly anyway, it gave it the kick it needed to get shifted. still not sure if the car adapted to my driving or i adapted to it, but it worked

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bella

to be honest, garc, if my old man turned up with an impreza i'd probably laugh at him

without wanting to sound, er... rude... does it not depend how old you are? my aforementioned old boy is approaching 60 (don't tell him, he's still in denial) and he freely admits his reactions are slowing down and he can't drive as fast as he used to. as such if he was going to get a raging lunatic car he'd want one that did what he was expecting, when he was expecting it and with HUGE brakes to make up for his reactions.

obviously it depends what you're used to but with that in mind... would a subaru loonywagon actually be one of the more sensible choices??

ps. as for insurance groups, if the golf r is anything like the audi s3 it's in the same insurance group as pastor maldonado. thank god for trade insurance...

My, my, I can't believe the number of older guys that spend all this time caring about what other people think. Surely by 50-60 years old you've earned the privilege to do whatever the hell you want, especially if you have already raised your children.

Here in the USA, the hot hatch thing is a narrow market, but I do see plenty of older gray hairs in Subaru WRX and STI's and other similar cars. With the WRX, it handles well, brakes well and accelerates well, so for a car to drive around in, it's not that bad.

Certainly a lot of those cars are designed and marketed to appeal to a younger crowd, but there is no reason why someone older can't buy something quicker and better running than an econobox.

It's interesting to me all these societal pressures that when you are X age you need to shut up, get with the program and do XYZ or else you will be eaten.

And diesel, . I don't know how a manufacturer could put a diesel in a car and think it's a hot hatch.

[bella]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

My, my, I can't believe the number of older guys that spend all this time caring about what other people think. Surely by 50-60 years old you've earned the privilege to do whatever the hell you want, especially if you have already raised your children.

you're sooooooo badly exaggerating that, but i can't be arsed to argue about it!

it's just called discussion, it's not lifechanging stuff, we're just talking about what suits different people.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by bella

you're sooooooo badly exaggerating that, but i can't be arsed to argue about it!

it's just called discussion, it's not lifechanging stuff, we're just talking about what suits different people.

I'm not taking it that seriously bella, I'm a very facetious and dry humored person and I do the same with all of my writing

In any case there are clearly quite a few guys worried about what they will be see in. Like I said before in the convertible thread, just for fun if you are 60 years old, get everyone talking. Get one of those Renaultsport jobbers in yellow and then dress up in a flatbill cap, some gold chains around your neck, skater sneakers, etc.

I really don't think it matters about how it looks, but what you actually enjoy driving. There is no need to be understated or whatever.

Pretty soon we'll have to start a thread on "Middle aged men and Minivans".

[dtype38]

All fair points, and I applaud americans for doing what they want regardless of what anyone thinks. Thing is though, I wouldn't go outside looking like a gangsta rapper. That's not what I am. For the same reason I'm not going to drive teenagers car. Yes I did start this thread because I fancy a Hot Hatch, but I want a "grown-up's" one. I also don't what to need a lottery win to do it. That's why I asked the question, and its fun hearing different points of view. I'll take them all under advisement when I do choose my next car.... but there's an equal chance that something completely left field will shout "buy me! buy me!" and that will be that!

[garcon]

To try and be serious for once, I would honestly recommend looking at an Octavia vRS, unless you're really looking for something smaller.

Or... at the opposite end of the scale to the Octavia size-wise but guaranteed to make you want to drive like a lunatic and giggle like a fool while you're doing it ..... I can't help loving the Abarth 500. Absolutely brilliant little package.

[bella]

if your car doesn't make you smile as you walk up to it in the car park, you're doing it wrong. that's what fiat got right when they updated the 500 versus mini updating the not so mini. they still make you smile.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

My, my, I can't believe the number of older guys that spend all this time caring about what other people think. Surely by 50-60 years old you've earned the privilege to do whatever the hell you want, especially if you have already raised your children.

I'm with you.

My Dad wanted a V8 Muscle Car all his life and when he was in his 50s, we had grown up and he finally was able to afford one. My sister was aghast and told him he should buy a car that "appropriate for a man of his age".

She meant a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry! She was serious!

Fortunately, he ignored her advice and bought a Ford Falcon GT and he absolutely loved it!

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by dtype38

For the same reason I'm not going to drive teenagers car. Yes I did start this thread because I fancy a Hot Hatch, but I want a "grown-up's" one.

A new one (or near-new) isn't a teenagers car - they can't afford them! Keep it tidy, in a subdued colour, even de-badge the car and most people wouldn't notice the difference from a normal Golf or Focus. Astras or Meganes with their coupe body styles are a bit different in that regard.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by johnh875

A new one (or near-new) isn't a teenagers car - they can't afford them! Keep it tidy, in a subdued colour, even de-badge the car and most people wouldn't notice the difference from a normal Golf or Focus. Astras or Meganes with their coupe body styles are a bit different in that regard.

Yes I think most of those cars listed in this thread, most teenagers and young adults can't afford or insure unless they have parental assistance. Probably most of the people buying those cars are 25-40 years old.

[JHamilton]

You're looking for a sleeper. I just read an article on the new Focus ST... It looks really, really cool. As mentioned earlier, if you get it in grey or black it will look quite conservative. You could even take the spoiler off the back for a sleeker look.

Lots of cool cars in this thread, wish we had more of them here.