2017 FORMULA 1 AZERBAIJAN GRAND PRIX - Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[spider]

As the dust is settling - again, what a brilliant race. Lewis put himself at risk - silly, but a pure professional mistake - but, for me, an error of judgement - no need, misjudged. Seb though, dear oh dear - not clever, and I don't think I've seen that in F1 - a deliberate bash of wheels.

Then, to just pretend it didn't happen...weird. It's almost like his adrenaline / emotional state was so high, he genuinely wasn't aware he'd made contact. Utterly odd. His behaviour with Max / Daniel last year showed his Red Bull mindset wasn't left in the past.

Just look at how Twitter was blowing up over it - it's good PR for the championship, bizarrely. Utterly unsporting / disgraceful, but good for attracting eyeballs.

[Matt]

i love this track.

lettem bang wheels after being frustrated. they were doing well under 100km/h

sidenote : this was all started due to the stupid restart rules F1 has. Having the cars fire nearly a mile away from the s/f line is stupid, the restart area shoulda been on the actual start/finish straight.

[Paradise City]

Vettel gets these spasms of road rage. And the penalty he got was very mild. If carelessness gets penalised, then that kind of maliciousness should get a tougher penalty than what he got.

[JABWOA]

I really want to see Vettel's face when he see the footage for the first time. With all his red misting, I don't think he realized he did bang wheels and then the carry on afterwards.... I doubt it was deliberate. Intentional berating, road rage, absolutely. He's not sheepish like the Multi 21 situation where he knew he did wrong and then decided (on advice) to defend himself. (Is Michael on Jacques the last deliberate contact? This was more like Roseberg on LH at Spa - a little too close while playing games.)

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

I used to really dislike Vettel back in the day - the Red Bull years, I guess - but more recently I found him much less objectionable. Then, this! Is it the winning? I think it's the winning that does it. A sniff of the championship trophy and he reverts to behaving like an arse. He certainly knows how to cancel out any respect that previous detractors might have built up for him.

There just isn't any excuse. There is nothing that another driver can do on the track that justifies that. These are the absolute top professional drivers in the world - even if Hamilton had literally slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and caused a pile-up, a retaliation on-track would not have been the correct response. When you're watched by millions, earning millions, and bringing in million in sponsorship you have to behave a little better than a short-tempered child in a public sim-racing server!

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

I totally agree with this...

[marcel82]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

I used to really dislike Vettel back in the day - the Red Bull years, I guess - but more recently I found him much less objectionable. Then, this! Is it the winning? I think it's the winning that does it. A sniff of the championship trophy and he reverts to behaving like an arse. He certainly knows how to cancel out any respect that previous detractors might have built up for him.

There just isn't any excuse. There is nothing that another driver can do on the track that justifies that. These are the absolute top professional drivers in the world - even if Hamilton had literally slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and caused a pile-up, a retaliation on-track would not have been the correct response. When you're watched by millions, earning millions, and bringing in million in sponsorship you have to behave a little better than a short-tempered child in a public sim-racing server!

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

Even worse are the post-race interviewers, where he just avoids any talk about intentionally driving into Lewis, as if he hopes no one saw it. what is he thinking??

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by JABWOA

Is Michael on Jacques the last deliberate contact?

I seem to think Maldonado was involved in some intentional contact (in qualifying? Or after the flag? Can't remember which.)

[F1Guy]

Originally Posted by BillWiskins

I used to really dislike Vettel back in the day - the Red Bull years, I guess - but more recently I found him much less objectionable. Then, this! Is it the winning? I think it's the winning that does it. A sniff of the championship trophy and he reverts to behaving like an arse. He certainly knows how to cancel out any respect that previous detractors might have built up for him.

There just isn't any excuse. There is nothing that another driver can do on the track that justifies that. These are the absolute top professional drivers in the world - even if Hamilton had literally slammed on the brakes out of nowhere and caused a pile-up, a retaliation on-track would not have been the correct response. When you're watched by millions, earning millions, and bringing in million in sponsorship you have to behave a little better than a short-tempered child in a public sim-racing server!

What makes it worse is the radio broadcast afterwards - "Where did I do dangerous driving?" This is exactly the kind of arrogance that caused my dislike of him to begin with. Ten seconds was nothing.

Ditto.

That 1% of respect I had for Vettel as a driver is now no more. I have zero respect for this petulant child. What an imbecile. And has the nerve to ask what was the dangerous driving he did on the radio! Really?? Then backs that up by saying in a post race interview that "Formula one is for grown ups". Right then Vettel, you need to get the f**k out of F1 because you my little boy are the biggest baby in F1. Period.

Keep hearing and reading so much about how Hamilton is the biggest whinger, etc. etc., while here we have a so called "champion" of the sport acting like a 12 year old boy (Turkey 2010 springs to mind), using obscene language on the team radio at every chance he get's, and then adding this latest pathetic driving episode, you have to ask the question, when was the last time Hamilton made a "nutcase" gesture at any driver, yet alone his own team-mate? Used obscene language on the team radio? Or deliberately hit another F1 driver during a warm up, SC or cool down lap?

[DV_08]

Why did Bottas escape penalty?

[TrapezeArtist]

Clever distraction technique is the post-race interview though. "He brake-tested me. I don't run into the back of him on purpose." As those were the only two possibilities.

But enough of this. Didn't Riciardo and Stroll do well? Those overtakes after the restarts were mega. And Stroll has gone from zero to hero in two races. If he had been quicker in his first few races I would have forgiven him the crashes (memories of Massa's first F1 season) but as he wasn't I put him down as just out-of-his-depth. I was wrong. And I really felt sorry for him being pipped on the line like that.

[Aysedasi]

It's interesting though what you read and where you read it. I read this morning that there was no evidence of Hamilton either braking or lifting off, he just didn't accelerate. And it was suggested that he did exactly the same on the first SC. Whether that's true or not, I don't much care now. There is still no doubt in my mind that Vettel's appalling behaviour was treated extraordinarily leniently.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

It's interesting though what you read and where you read it. I read this morning that there was no evidence of Hamilton either braking or lifting off, he just didn't accelerate. And it was suggested that he did exactly the same on the first SC. Whether that's true or not, I don't much care now. There is still no doubt in my mind that Vettel's appalling behaviour was treated extraordinarily leniently.

was confirmed by the FIA that Hamilton did nothing wrong, neither braked nor accelerated.

[Akrapovic]

I'm sure I see it during the race and someone screen capped it. There was a point where Lewis was on the brakes.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm sure I see it during the race and someone screen capped it. There was a point where Lewis was on the brakes.

not sure id trust a 1 frame screenshot from a TV broadcast over the vast amount of data that the stewards will have had. tv broadcast images are often wrong or behind what is happening on track

[Akrapovic]

Usually not that far behind though. It's pretty reasonable for people to be questioning the statement that Lewis did not brake, when there was on-screen telemetry that showed he did. Not saying it's the case here, but it wouldn't be the first time that Lewis and his team would've been involved in an odd situation where what the team said and supplied to the FIA contradicted what actually happened.

Either way, F1 has left the safety car situation open to these kind of incidents, and doesn't appear to be concerned. A lot of other series manage the safety cars better than this. But I suppose a lot of other series would've parked Vettel too.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Usually not that far behind though. It's pretty reasonable for people to be questioning the statement that Lewis did not brake, when there was on-screen telemetry that showed he did. Not saying it's the case here, but it wouldn't be the first time that Lewis and his team would've been involved in an odd situation where what the team said and supplied to the FIA contradicted what actually happened.

Either way, F1 has left the safety car situation open to these kind of incidents, and doesn't appear to be concerned. A lot of other series manage the safety cars better than this. But I suppose a lot of other series would've parked Vettel too.

The on screen graphics are not true telemetry, they are a simulation of what a computer thinks is happening in the car due to audio and visual clues along with 'some' sensor data. As the microphones will not be hearing throttle at that point, it assumes brake is being applied, but has no way to know how much.

[Compromised]

So theoretically, if Vettel runs up the back of Hamilton, keeps his cool and keeps racing, he wins the race?

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

The on screen graphics are not true telemetry, they are a simulation of what a computer thinks is happening in the car due to audio and visual clues. As the microphones will not be hearing throttle at that point, it assumes brake is being applied.

I'm not sure that's the case anymore. It certainly used to be, but with G-Meters, DRS flaps, hybrid power (and previously, KERS), there are no visual queues for them to work with with the modern systems. It's certainly not true telemetry as the team get in the garage, but it's a lot more sophisticated than it used to be.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I'm not sure that's the case anymore. It certainly used to be, but with G-Meters, DRS flaps, hybrid power (and previously, KERS), there are no visual queues for them to work with with the modern systems. It's certainly not true telemetry as the team get in the garage, but it's a lot more sophisticated than it used to be.

I meant more specifically the brake data. As there are so many variables to brake application, it would be extremely difficult to present a consistent gauge for one car over a lap, let alone different cars over a race distance.

[JHamilton]

I thought both Hamilton and Vettel drove like twits and each received appropriate "penalties".

I think part of the reason is the lack of direction from the FIA, but F1 drivers are terrible at rolling restarts. Always have been.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I thought both Hamilton and Vettel drove like twits and each received appropriate "penalties".

I think part of the reason is the lack of direction from the FIA, but F1 drivers are terrible at rolling restarts. Always have been.

It's not F1 drivers are being terrible at rolling restarts that's the problem, it's allowing the lead driver to dictate the pace. Instead, the lead driver should be required to maintain pace lap speed until reaching a designated restart point on the track.

[ascarracinguk]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

I thought both Hamilton and Vettel drove like twits and each received appropriate "penalties".

I think part of the reason is the lack of direction from the FIA, but F1 drivers are terrible at rolling restarts. Always have been.

how did Hamilton drive like a twit? confirmed by FIA he did nothing wrong....

[Matt]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

It's not F1 drivers are being terrible at rolling restarts that's the problem, it's allowing the lead driver to dictate the pace. Instead, the lead driver should be required to maintain pace lap speed until reaching a designated restart point on the track.

[djinvicta]

Having to judge when you think the Safety Car might be in the pit lane when you can't even see it is just crazy...
I think this happened also last year?

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by ascarracinguk

how did Hamilton drive like a twit? confirmed by FIA he did nothing wrong....

He was backing up the field to gain an advantage on the restart. When I watch the video, he parked it on exit of the corner regardless of whether his is on/off the brake/throttle. You can't even see the safety car at that point. That's against all the rules where I'm from... if it is not in F1, fair enough, but I still think karma worked here.

Vettel acted like a petulant child after the incident. People want to like the guy but he makes it extremely difficult. I honestly think he was so out of his mind with anger that he didn't even know he knocked wheels with Hamilton.