Global Rallycross Championship 2012

[AndyS]

I have no problem with the GRC and was all for it if it promotes the sport. Then I heard about the lack of gravel and thought oh dear. Having watched the Youtube videos it was better than I thought it was going to be. The lack of gravel doesn't seem right though, but I understand why because of the tracks they are using. If this takes hold I'll be interested to see how it develops, whether it influences the future of rallycross or whether it becomes a form of motorsport in its own right under a different guise.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Its all about the Xgames really and thats a huge thing where rallycross is a sideshow to skating, BMW and freestyle, motocross has welcomed freestyle and it introduces a new way of riding to motocross, but it clearly isnt motocross.

True. But the freestyle and spin-off genres have been given different names, whilst the "original" motocross format has been left to carry the name.

If the aim is to change rallycross into something else then that is fine, but it should be given a different name if that is the case (I acknowledge Marks comment though in that this isn't the long term goal). Rallycross was already known as something else in the US, presenting rally fans with a third interpretation of the name is sure to confuse them even more!

Ironically though, for all the criticism the X-Games format was drawing from some rallycross fans last year, its now the only "proper" rallycross event in the GRC calendar.

Originally Posted by chunder

So for me GRC needs to do more to move away from rallycross, maybe do the time trial stuff that Block has in Dirt3?

Not sure what portion of the game you are referring to here? If you mean gymkhana then that has already been (and gone) in the US. DiRT 3 represented rallycross as grids of cars racing on closed circuits, so not sure how "time trial" that is? (Though notably DiRT 3 included all tarmac circuits under the "rallycross" banner - maybe they knew something we didn't! )

I just made a comment on Facebook, but it seems valid, so I'm going to echo it here. I do think the GRC has got/is getting a particularly hard time from some of the old guard of rallycross. Last year I actually thought many were being overly harsh as it was, by definition, still rallycross (yes, even with a jump!) but the format this year (irrespective of the reasons) is sure to draw more criticism.

There is no question that the GRC is reaching out to a huge audience and that (in my opinion) is brilliant. The video I've seen of the Final shows some good racing and I've just got a copy of the full coverage which I'm really looking forward to watching. The simple fact is though, what we are seeing with the NASCAR based events isn't rallycross. I can understand the reasons why there was no dirt but, in the eyes of the established rallycross fans, its a step backwards.

The only way those critics will be silenced is if the GRC is able to find a way to make mixed surface tracks viable in "big" locations. Mark says that this is the aim for the series so, for now, the GRC still has my support. I just hope that we don't continue to see more-and-more compromises made in order to bring rallycross to a wider audience.

PS: Having had a quick view of the coverage I can see chasing cars point with regards to the narrow divide. Looking at where Block contacted the barrier you can see the potential for a car to end up in front of a line of traffic.

[Benny1664]

Its not rallycross, its energy drinks brands pitting big names against each other in stock car racing! The damage to what are very expensive cars was unbelievable and how can it be a rallycross track when its all on tarmac and no dirt?! I didnt get it at all... The heats sucked as there were never enough cars in them that worked properly and the final was a destruction derby where they were were allowed to do what they wanted.. or so it seemed to me!

[tbtstt]

I don't think anyone disagrees with regards to the lack of dirt making the "rallycross" classification a bit inappropriate Benny1664 but...

Originally Posted by Benny1664

...the final was a destruction derby where they were were allowed to do what they wanted.. or so it seemed to me!

...I wouldn't agree with this. There was contact in the final, thats for sure, but the only overly-aggressive moves (in my opinion) came from Heikkinen (on Foust and Mirra) and he got disqualified after the chequered flag.

[Benny1664]

Not a destruction derby? So, how many cars were smashed up at the end of the race, over half of them I believe and even many of the track barriers were destroyed.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by Benny1664

Not a destruction derby? So, how many cars were smashed up at the end of the race, over half of them I believe and even many of the track barriers were destroyed.

Pastrana and Mirra were both taken out of the race by Heikkinen (who, as I said, was black flagged afterwards).

Binks took himself out - and wiped out a load of the barriers on the corner you are talking about - I can't recall now, but were there any other barriers "destroyed"?

I make that 3 of 10 cars "smashed up", only two of which were due to the actions of another driver.

Now go and watch the "A" Final from Greinbach last weekend (its here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnW954uHClA), how many cars finished there? And how much contact did you see in that race? Far more than at Charlotte, thats for sure.

I'm not saying that the GRC is flawless but, in my personal opinion, "destruction derby" is not a criticism I would throw at it.

Still, thats just my opinion.

[chunder]

I do have some sympathy with Bennys view of it being an evergydrinks smash fest.

Thats a largely cynical view, but lets face it, it is only since these big US brands came in that this has become worse.

And also, they all drive for Eriksson, who was hardly backward in smashing into anything around him, and probably has the bigest spares budget anyway.

Its perfect for Americans, they love this kind of thing as a sideshow, just like monster trucks or CORR or stadium racing.

My only issues are with the lack of real rallycross, if you want to call it something like time attack racing fair enough, but dont call it rallycross, coz it really isnt when you racing between plastic course dividers, going thropugh watersplashes and jumping, its BAJA in imports!

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

I do have some sympathy with Bennys view of it being an evergydrinks smash fest.

The energy drinks bring the $/£ and appeal to a younger audience (the future - worrying as that may be ) - if they bring in more spectators then other sponsors may be attracted too - and let's face it, those cars cost a lot of money.

Originally Posted by chunder

Thats a largely cynical view, but lets face it, it is only since these big US brands came in that this has become worse.

Really? Only since the US brands have come in that contact has become commonplace? One name - Martin Schanche. I don't recall his car being plastered in energy drink stickers

Originally Posted by chunder

And also, they all drive for Eriksson, who was hardly backward in smashing into anything around him, and probably has the bigest spares budget anyway.

True enough, Eriksson isn't afraid of going for a gap that's not really there (and his car isn't/wasn't covered with energy drink stickers ).

Originally Posted by chunder

Its perfect for Americans, they love this kind of thing as a sideshow, just like monster trucks or CORR or stadium racing.

My only issues are with the lack of real rallycross, if you want to call it something like time attack racing fair enough, but dont call it rallycross, coz it really isnt when you racing between plastic course dividers, going thropugh watersplashes and jumping, its BAJA in imports!

My main worry (apart from the lack of gravel) is that it just looks a bit 'lost' in the Oval stadiums - I watched the coverage of the first round and you're right - it looks a bit like a sideshow rather than an event in itself. They also suffered from the problem you get on airfield rallies where there are lots of cones used to mark the stage - someone drives through them and scatters them everywhere , from that point onwards you're making the route up as you go along to some extent.

I've downloaded the Best Buy GRC app so I'll keep an eye on progress.

[USRallycross]

I was going to ask if anyone had downloaded the App. IT was tough to get it finished for Charlotte but worked well but there will be more to come. If you want to install it go to the App Store and load Best Buy Racing Global Rallycross App - it is free so should please folk on here!

We had a mechanical issue on David's car hence he clouted the barriers. You all know that crashing is not David's MO. Aslo didn't see too much carnage. Sure Topi took out Pastrana and Mirra but neither car was badly damaged - and quite rightly Topi was DQ'd - and no-one at OMSE argued with that either.

The biggest damage was self inflicted by Block and Binks - but David's made the course interesting!

When you look at the field it is not dominated by energy drinks. Only 2 of the 5 OMSE Fiesta's are energy drink backed and we even brought in American Express (first time ever in motorsport); two Subies are Puma only and neither of the Saab's. Obviously the big names in the US - Pastrana, Foust, Block and Deegan are backed by drinks (and Doran will be in Texas); but that isn't half the field. As other manufacturers and teams come in you will see more cross over with main street NASCAR sponsors.

Mark

[chunder]

C omments about damage are laregly irrelevant, damage has always been a part of rallycross. So I take that on the head.

And Schanche gets a bad rap from people about contact, he was not that bad. Most of time anyhting bad he did was provoked and he retaliated in a OTT way, he wasnt hugely hard on body contact.

Div 1 and the later classes like Prod fwd and Grp N were horrendous for contact, worst in the history of the sport I feel.

I just bdont recognise this form as rallycross, it is in ways, but in others it isnt, I hope its evolution for the good but so far I remain to be convinced.

[schanche]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

I was going to ask if anyone had downloaded the App. IT was tough to get it finished for Charlotte but worked well but there will be more to come. If you want to install it go to the App Store and load Best Buy Racing Global Rallycross App - it is free so should please folk on here!

We had a mechanical issue on David's car hence he clouted the barriers. You all know that crashing is not David's MO. Aslo didn't see too much carnage. Sure Topi took out Pastrana and Mirra but neither car was badly damaged - and quite rightly Topi was DQ'd - and no-one at OMSE argued with that either.

The biggest damage was self inflicted by Block and Binks - but David's made the course interesting!

When you look at the field it is not dominated by energy drinks. Only 2 of the 5 OMSE Fiesta's are energy drink backed and we even brought in American Express (first time ever in motorsport); two Subies are Puma only and neither of the Saab's. Obviously the big names in the US - Pastrana, Foust, Block and Deegan are backed by drinks (and Doran will be in Texas); but that isn't half the field. As other manufacturers and teams come in you will see more cross over with main street NASCAR sponsors.

Mark

Best Buy App yep I got it fantastic idea I've said all along Rallycross needs an App for live timmings etc! Got slightly alarmed when the clock started counting back up again lol but apart from that top job.
Not seen much footage but what I saw was ok but Blocks epic fail PMSL made for great watching! Yep fastest and longest jump oooooooh yeeeeeey. Ariving at the corner twice as fast,Gronholm taking his usual line Block thinking I got him and then realising Damm need to scrub speed off and crash! shame couldn't film it again. Still Erc R4 Hungary this weekend Foust back and gravel just need an app now Wakey Wakey Erc!

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

We had a mechanical issue on David's car hence he clouted the barriers. You all know that crashing is not David's MO.

I wondered what happened. It looked like he locked up, so I wondered if he tried to out brake Mirra into that turn and lost it.

Originally Posted by chunder

I just bdont recognise this form as rallycross, it is in ways, but in others it isnt, I hope its evolution for the good but so far I remain to be convinced.

I think this is a pretty measured summary of the GRC (you're losing your touch chunder ): all tarmac isn't rallycross and as long as it takes this form the critics won't be silenced. If this is just a stepping stone for the next step though, then that fact is a little easier to swallow, I just hope the next progression can happen before the European fanbase completely dismiss the series.

Originally Posted by schanche

Yep fastest and longest jump oooooooh yeeeeeey. Ariving at the corner twice as fast,Gronholm taking his usual line Block thinking I got him and then realising Damm need to scrub speed off and crash

Did you see the whole of that Heat? I was actually quite surprised that Block not only stayed with Gronholm but he started to pull him in (before he overjumped)...


...or perhaps Gronholm was just letting him catch up for the cameras!

[schanche]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Did you see the whole of that Heat? I was actually quite surprised that Block not only stayed with Gronholm but he started to pull him in (before he overjumped)...


...or perhaps Gronholm was just letting him catch up for the cameras!

Just for you I watched it again Steve!
Pull him in nope! Drawn the same conclusion! Not Gymkhana is it!

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by schanche

Just for you I watched it again Steve!
Pull him in nope! Drawn the same conclusion! Not Gymkhana is it!

Did you watch the full heat or just the little clip on You Tube? He seemed to take a chunk out of him in the lap before. Then he took the jump and really closed in on Gronholm...



...and then he hit the wall.

Given he ran a top 5 qualifying time I was expecting Block to be mixing it up a bit more on race day. Looked like his car was running like a bag of crap after the impact though, as he seemed to really struggle in the LCQ.

[nickyf1]

Not sure if this has been put up here yet.. But it's the full ESPN telecast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp7C7PGW-1k

[chunder]

Err, did someone say there were some peopel there?

I watched about a half hour and saw about 30! And some NASCAR drivers! lol.

Never mind boys

[Matt]

Originally Posted by chunder

Err, did someone say there were some peopel there?

I watched about a half hour and saw about 30! And some NASCAR drivers! lol.

Never mind boys

You must be blind.



The place seats 140,000 people, there's probably about 9-10,000 people in attendance. It just looks like a lot less due to the size of the place.

[chunder]

My mistake, the bit I watched on the feed was obviously a qualifying day, i could see from pictures later on that there were sopme people there

[USRallycross]

Texas just released the track details for this weekend and the good news (except for everyone on here!) is that the gap jump is back as well as a table top jump and the water spray. Course looks more fun than Charlotte and think Tanner is running today or tomorrow so should have some feedback.

Remember to go to the App Store and download the Best Buy Racing App - we will be finished before you all go to sleep in Europe this weekend as we race before the IndyCar series.

Mark

[Benny1664]

Is Tanner running by himself? If thats the case, dont the other drivers get upset by him getting extra testing than them? Surely thats a big advantage?

[tbtstt]

Entry list for Round 2 (Texas Motor Speedway) is now up on the GRC site:

Marcus Grönholm - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Sverre Isachsen - 2012 Subaru WRX STi
Stephan Verdier- 2012 Hyundai Veloster
David Binks - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Andy Scott - 2010 Saab 9.3
Liam Doran - 2012 Citroen C4
Tanner Foust - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Brian Deegan - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Dave Mirra - 2012 Subaru WRX STi
Ken Block - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Toomas Heikkinen - 2012 Ford Fiesta
Patrick Moro - 2007 Subaru WRX STi
Rhys Millen - 2012 Hyundai Veloster
Samuel Hubinette - 2010 Saab 9.3
Bucky Lasek - 2012 Subaru WRX STi
Travis Pastrana - 2013 Dodge Dart
Jimmy Keeney - 2007 Subaru WRX STi

Looking on Facebook I see Jimmy Keeney has got himself a new sponsor: Michael Crawford Motorsports, the company who were originally associated with Holte.

The official entry list on the GRC site lists Keeney's car as a 2007 model but, looking at the pictures on the Michael Crawford Motorsports page, it looks like a GR sedan to me (post-2009). If I'm right then I think that marks the rallycross debut for the sedan version of the latest shape Impreza.

[V8thunderfan]

Bit disappointed by the lack of a mixed surface section at Charlotte. Don't get me wrong I can see why it would be hard to implement on a race track hosting a huge NASCAR event. I kinda feel that the all tarmac affair didn't do the sport justice. Its awesome to see the sport getting some very decent coverage over in the States though

[Matt]

oh jeez, liam is running

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by Matt

oh jeez, liam is running

From what I've seen in the last 5 rounds of the GRC, contact is what has driven the series. And well, Doran is self explanatory.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by HaydenFan

From what I've seen in the last 5 rounds of the GRC, contact is what has driven the series. And well, Doran is self explanatory.

Pardon my ignorance here, but did I miss all the contact that has been "driving" the GRC?