Global Rallycross Championship 2012

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Pardon my ignorance here, but did I miss all the contact that has been "driving" the GRC?

The announcers make it sound like you score extra points or something for contact. I'll admit to not seeing much rallycross outside the GRC, but from what I've seen (all of last season and the first round in Charlotte this season), the only way overtaking was occurring was from spinning your opponent out, or you opponent hit the wall and broke something.

As well, from what I've seen on Youtube, European rallycross cars do not seem as fragile. In the GRC, it seems just the littlest of things breaks the cars.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by HaydenFan

The announcers make it sound like you score extra points or something for contact. I'll admit to not seeing much rallycross outside the GRC, but from what I've seen (all of last season and the first round in Charlotte this season), the only way overtaking was occurring was from spinning your opponent out, or you opponent hit the wall and broke something.

Have a little look at these...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2s712QI2XE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnW954uHClA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts3r3UU8MIM

...all the above videos are Supercar "A" finals from the 2012 ERC season and I would stick my neck out and they all involve far more contact than any of the GRC events to date.

By its very nature rallycross is a sport of attrition, so positions will be won (and lost) due to other cars making mistakes or breaking down. Given the power of the cars and tight courses contact is inevitable, though the line between acceptable and unacceptable contact is one that is (seemingly) subject to much debate! Sure I can recall a few "clean" passes in the GRC and X-Games last year, without watching the programmes again though I can't recall when and where that was.

I'm sure that the US commentators did state a few times that rallycross is a no contact sport, plus don't forget that Heikkinen was black flagged from the first round at Charlotte last weekend after his contact with Pastrana and Mirra. So at least they are punishing drivers for contact in the US more consistently then we are in Europe...

Originally Posted by HaydenFan

As well, from what I've seen on Youtube, European rallycross cars do not seem as fragile. In the GRC, it seems just the littlest of things breaks the cars.

The cars involved in the GRC this year are virtually identical to those used in the ERC Supercar class. The (neglible) difference in power levels were discussed a little while back but, structurally, the cars are identical: the best example of which is the OMSE team, who field pretty much identical specification Fiestas in both the US and Europe.

(USRallycross on here may be able to be a bit more precise with what the exact differences are) (as, I'm sure, will RXGuru or one of the other long term rallycrossers!)

[HaydenFan]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I'm sure that the US commentators did state a few times that rallycross is a no contact sport, plus don't forget that Heikkinen was black flagged from the first round at Charlotte last weekend after his contact with Pastrana and Mirra. So at least they are punishing drivers for contact in the US more consistently then we are in Europe...

Well, it was Pastrana and Mirra that was spun out. Two of the biggest names people went to see.

Clean overtaking is what I was trying to refer to. Maybe it's more about the level and experience of the drivers involved than anything else though. Many of the GRC drivers are relative rookies to motor racing, let alone rallycross, and it reflects on the product on the track (i.e. hitting walls, making bonehead passes).

The two Saabs (cannot recall the names ATM), in Charlotte were the best cars out there. Not the fastest, but they did not try on lap one, to go from last to first. Many of the American drivers just don't have that experience to sit and wait tell a lap or two to get into a rhythm.

[USRallycross]

Hayden - not sure who you are but please stop embarassing yourself.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by USRallycross

Hayden - not sure who you are but please stop embarassing yourself.

Yup.

[The Dozer]

I completely agree

[USRallycross]

The new portable jump looks amazing but took forever to set up. Gave up on jump practice last night so very early start today......

Need things to align really well to make this work. Dariio Franchitti had asked to run with Marcus last night so hopefully we can re-arrange.

Mark

[tbtstt]

Looks like quite an eventful practise with Pastrana bending his car somewhat! The top three qualifying times aren't really a surprise...

1. Gronholm
2. Foust
3. Doran
4. Block
5. Hubinette
6. Deegan
7. Heikkinen
8. Pastrana
9. Scott
10. Isachsen

...another good qualifying position for Block again. Hopefully he can transfer that to the racing and keep the car out of the tyres.

Not so good for Binks: qualified in 12th.

[M.Lowe]

Can anyone tell me if this years coverage has been on Motors TV or ESPN in the UK yet?

[USRallycross]

Well another round of the GRC is in the books and we are seeing some common themes. Firstly Gronholm is incredible and that while race day goes off without a hitch the days preceding are a nightmare!

It took three attempts to run the A Final and I personally think Deegan deserved the win but was robbed by an unnecessary red flag in the first attempt and a blatant block by Block in the second. But that is racing and in the third heat Marcus nailed the start (first try Sverre drove into him) and when Tanner took the shortcut late he allowed Gronholm too much time to do what he does best - disappear.......

We had the jump here. The descent was too severe in practice and the track did a very credible job changing it for race day. Thankfully no major crashes over the jump but a lot of heaving landings and sore backs. More work to be done but the crowd went wild over the constant jumping.

The crowd. Seriously big. The track put it at 55-60k which is only 15k less than they got for the IndyCar race (from same source). I think it was a little smaller than that but it is so hard to judge on an oval. Either way it was huge and very enthusiastic - like a soccer crowd when Scott and Hubinette came together. The lines for the autographs signings were huge (45 minutes before we cut it off) and they spread them over the stadium so it wasn't all Pastrana, Block, Deegan, etc). Marcus said he was impressed that the fans actually knew something and had told him they watched Charlotte on TV and then booked their tickets. He even met four guys who had flown from Finland to watch him.

So lots of work still to do before New Hampshire (X Games is so different) but the momentum is good after two events. What doesn't work well can be fixed and what does work is building well. There is even a small chance of some dirt appearing in New Hampshire - but no promises.

I think David did really well this weekend. He admits the jump got into his head and he screwed up qualifying but his starts (all four of them were excellent) and 5th place and an X Games spot is great reward. He is doing more driving school between now and X Games and Marcus was providing some tips.

Do I really have to wait another three weeks to do this again?

Mark
Marcus Quote of the Meeting "yes, there are some good drivers in the series like Foust and Deegan - he then pauses and continues - Pastrana and Block ar fast too but they seem to hit a lot of walls!"

[Matt]

I really, reaaaaaaallly don't like that big jump...I just see a lot of issues with it.

Track map for NHMS indicates that the Joker lap will be across the grass...

[tbtstt]

Looks like a few incidents from the clips I've seen on You Tube, lucky escape from Lasek as well...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw6MKREGUnI

...looking forward to checking out the full coverage once I can get hold of it.

Originally Posted by USRallycross

There is even a small chance of some dirt appearing in New Hampshire - but no promises.

Fingers crossed. I'm sure it won't convert some of the less keen European fans overnight, but it would be a big step in the right direction!


EDIT: Found the coverage online here:

You Tube - GRC Round 2

[NaBUru38]

During the races, the jump seems fine (i.e. great). Charlotte is much wider, that's why there were so many crashes here.

I don't like drivers taking the shortcut right after the start. I mailed GRX so they forbid that and the full grid meets at the first corner and race together for the first lap.

[schanche]

Mark! Why oh why is the main/A final not formed in staggered grids like in Europe
Not two rows of five and the odds at the back? Surely adopting the Erc style grid would allow those on the 2nd and 3rd row getting a flyer. We could also do with boy blunder on the grid to form the cars up properly definate jump from the Boss!

[USRallycross]

In his defense that was the third start in a row and things slip after that many starts. Either way, no clue why they grid like they do except that it is really easy for Americans to understand - winners on the front row, second place on the second row and LCQ winners on the third. The ERC system wouldn't work with the way they award positions for the final.

[Stephen H]

Well done espn, for cutting the coverage halfway through on freeview!!

How on earth they can have the slogan, "miss nothing"

Well so far round 1 was completely missing and they only showed the first 30mins of round 2.

Not impressed!!

[GOLDFINGER]

Not my cup of tea

[WJM]

USRallycross (or someone else), could you tell me the American TV ratings for the GRC? I'd be interested in how it compares to other American racing series.

[tbtstt]

Just finished watching the full coverage. I made the comment on Facebook earlier but, having watched the whole thing, I have to reiterate that the jump looked really aggressive. I appreciate that there is a difference in the material used for construction, but that jump looked way harder than any of the gap jumps in either the X-Games rally/super rally/rallycross or the GRC.

Was it a greater incline than previous jumps or something?

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I don't like drivers taking the shortcut right after the start. I mailed GRX so they forbid that and the full grid meets at the first corner and race together for the first lap.

I think thats already a rule? Jen Horsey actually says in the coverage that they can't take it in the first lap (Listen at 12:07 in the video You Tube - GRC Round 2) and she says Heikkinen gets disqualified (36:27) for taking the shortcut on the first lap. But in the final the pack splits at the start? Perhaps the rule doesn't apply in the final? (one for USRallycross again?).

I actually think its pretty funny that, with all the talk of the Americans "wanting a demolition derby", its the American drivers who have a little pop about a European making excessive car contact in that programme.

Unlucky for Block, looks like the three attempts at the final took their toll on the car. Good to see Isachsen looking a bit more on the pace in the Scoob. He got disqualified for stopping on the jump though?

[Pozi]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Good to see Isachsen looking a bit more on the pace in the Scoob. He got disqualified for stopping on the jump though?

He got disqualified for causing the red flag as a consequence of blocking the jump.

He said in an interview he was not happy with the decision after Binks and Scott slowed in front of him leaving him with the choice of stop, not clear the jump or land on them. For avoiding a potentially huge accident he received a penalty anyway.

While the jump is certainly spectacular it does have the downside that there are no escape options if the car in front does something odd, as can be seen with Isachsen or more dramatically by Bucky Lasek's bail out when he thought Liam was not going to make it.

[USRallycross]

Re the Joker Lap. You could take the Joker Lap in the final on the first lap. This was agreed in the drivers meeting because a) the drivers were concerned re the carnage from 10 cars into the hairpin and b) those of concerned about the show were worried that we would have 10 cars line astern by the time they get to the chicane and it would look bad.

I think the format worked well. The heat races were much closer without the leader disappearing on the first lap and the LCQ's worked well - except for Topi!

The landing of the jump was aggressive and that was after they made huge changes to it. More work needs to be down on the landing and the organizers took a lot of feedback. They have the pieces to make it wider and allow two cars over it at the same time in the future.

Iscachsen was DQ because he caused the red flag. He had enough speed to take the jump but I think he was rattled by David coming by him. This is the first jump (outside of last years X Games) that we didn't have a car roll at a GRC event. The cars took a real pounding as did the drivers and we would prefer the jump isn't taken every lap but as the Joker Lap like it was last year. We shall see if that changes for X Games.

Overall a very good event and another huge crowd......

[Stephen H]

On ESPN right now for uk viewers, 7pm to 8pm, tues, 12th June

[chunder]

Well I guess the reason why there are so many retirements are many.

These cars are not designed to run high speeds and asphalt, they are setup largely to run tar and loose, so flat out stuff is gonna make them run hot.

And they certainly are not designed to be jumped, at all, ever.

If you can design a jump that can be taken without eh car dropping so far and without it having a stupid ridge in the land zone then maybe it might work better.

But it's a gimmick, sadly one that costs the teams a lot of money, but you can see what this is all about, the advertising in betwen is all geared at the people competing, its just like NASCAR.

Racing is hard as the track is narrowed so much coz of the fact youa re running cones and course markers, just a mess really.

Crowd might be good but rallycross is made for television remember and I managed about 20 minutes sorry guys.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chunder

These cars are not designed to run high speeds and asphalt, they are setup largely to run tar and loose, so flat out stuff is gonna make them run hot.

It's also going to be harder on the transmissions, the cars will have to be set up stiffer and that'll reduce sliding but put more strain on the transmission.

Originally Posted by chunder

And they certainly are not designed to be jumped, at all, ever.

Not sure about that - they jump at Holjes (nowhere near as high certainly), they should be able to take it but again if you run them stiffer due to the 100% tarmac the landings are going to jolt even more.

[USRallycross]

Had lunch with Andreas today and said the jump isn't a problem. We didn't get to practice beforehand so had the wrong spring/damper set-up and know the changes we need to make make.

Also a lot has to do with how the drivers land. Deegan - the bike legend - didn't have a mark on his car. David and Tanner, well not so much!

Mark