No further punishment for Ferrari - Page 2

BMW_F1 · 8 Sep 2010, 21:08 (Ref:2756414)

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

The most painful part is that Teflonso now has 7 points more than he deserves. If he wins the championship by 7 points or less, it will be a travesty. A most unsatisfactory conclusion to the best season in a long long time.

If a driver can't beat all of the drivers in the championship without being given points by another driver, he is not a worthy champion.

Ferrari International Aid is alive and well and living in Paris.

.
.with that said why not just take away Kimi and Lewis WDCs ?

**Born Racer** · 8 Sep 2010, 21:09 (Ref:2756417)

Swapping Massa and Alonso's points would have got the point across.

Fox89 · 8 Sep 2010, 21:15 (Ref:2756422)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

I'm confused!

If Ferrari's defence was simply that Massa himself decided to let Alonso by then why were they fined $100,000 in the first place. If the FIA have accepted this argument then why don't they give Ferrari the money back?

Bear in mind the $100,000 fine was for breaching regulation...whatever number it is! The stewards have already decided that Ferrari is guilty in that respect, whatever penalty they decided was always going to stand.

The WMSC hearing was much more about Ferrari 'bringing the sport into disrepute', and they have been found innocent of that. I don't think public outcry on its own counts as 'bringing the sport into disrepute', if it were everyone would be being stripped of championships every week!

**Born Racer** · 8 Sep 2010, 21:30 (Ref:2756432)

Quote:

Originally Posted by strider

The best the FIA can do is devise a method by which they are not immediately apparent to the general public.

I've heard other people say that, strider, but I don't understand that reasoning. Why delude ourselves that they're not happening? If I am to find favour with what Ferrari did (and I am NOT), at least we weren't in any doubt. Although we did have to put up with Colajanni and Domenicali talking ******** to the watching world.

djinvicta · 8 Sep 2010, 21:57 (Ref:2756440)

Surely the point of all this is bared for all to see. Cut costs, yes. Ever seen the FIA offices on Concorde in Paris? The most opulent insulting building that these people "sit" a few times a year and "govern" the rules. Why not a cafe in St Michel and save some money? A small office in Opera? They make all these cost cutting decisions, issue fines that dont count on our monetary scale and expect us all to believe and take their rulings. Which we do, like lame lambs while they earn a few grand more. The building in the most expensive part of Paris flys the FIA flag, demanding rules, takes weeks to come to decisions and cares sod all for the paying public. This decision should have been made within 10 mins of the finish of the GP!! I still watch GPs of course, but the ruling body needs revitalising, paying off the money grabbing buggers that care nothing about "sport", and giving the decisions/fines etc back to a grass root ex drivers line up. Problem is, its all been created by Bernie (and good luck to him) as a money making exercise that has now consumed the sport. Look out, coffee being served in FIA office, take a 2 hour break. Its not a sport is it? Its a revolving circus, creating fortunes that "keep" people we dont even know, in the way theyve been "dragged" up. How sick.. the FIA will sit, 3 weeks later and make a decision!! We saw it all, as EJ says, were not monkeys, well, they at the FIA reckon you all are! This rule has probably been broken every race since it was introduced. But, not blatantly like Ferrari. If you watch F1 and cannot believe team orders go on, then go watch something else, and get real to the World! Still the next 6 races will be crackers, with team orders, two fingers to the authorities, and Alonso raring to get those points to hit No1. Jenson needs a good one, Lewis to retain his form and Potsie to struggle at Monza. But hey, Im English!!

**bjohnsonsmith** · 8 Sep 2010, 22:04 (Ref:2756443)

I'm not surprised at the somewhat duplicitous nature of the outcome.

Marbot · 8 Sep 2010, 22:21 (Ref:2756454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Born Racer

I've heard other people say that, strider, but I don't understand that reasoning. Why delude ourselves that they're not happening? If I am to find favour with what Ferrari did (and I am NOT), at least we weren't in any doubt. Although we did have to put up with Colajanni and Domenicali talking ******** to the watching world.

Agreed. Why not have team orders and make it patently obvious that you are about to use them. What's to hide?

**Bononi** · 8 Sep 2010, 22:58 (Ref:2756461)

Bliiirrppp...

**Bononi** · 8 Sep 2010, 23:13 (Ref:2756471)

It's like having the judge instead of making a judgement changes the law... how far this will go on ?

The reporters should make a protest for this mockery that has become F1, after every qualifying, in the press conference ask the teams who will win the race, what the positions will be, in any situation, as it all depends on what they will decide.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 8 Sep 2010, 23:19 (Ref:2756474)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

Bliiirrppp...

Great bit of Photoshoping; very appropriate.

**Bononi** · 8 Sep 2010, 23:22 (Ref:2756476)

Nah... Ferrari will be sporting his support for thei greatest sponsor...

littleman · 8 Sep 2010, 23:31 (Ref:2756480)

The awful truth is the FIA, as well as Ecclestone, will always capitulate when faced with a Ferrari gunfight.

They know F1 needs Ferrari, they know wider motorsport needs Ferrari, they know Ferrari ultimately holds all the ace's.Ferrari will never receive the punishment they occasionally deserve - these are the facts.

**bjohnsonsmith** · 8 Sep 2010, 23:40 (Ref:2756483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleman

The awful truth is the FIA, as well as Ecclestone, will always capitulate when faced with a Ferrari gunfight.

They know F1 needs Ferrari, they know wider motorsport needs Ferrari, they know Ferrari ultimately holds all the ace's.Ferrari will never receive the punishment they occasionally deserve - these are the facts.

I think that sums the situation up perfectly.

Wims · 8 Sep 2010, 23:47 (Ref:2756487)

You guys talk like Ferrari didnt receive any penalty. They got fined 100 000, the biggest penalty the stewards were allowed to issue. I think that was enough for this very minor rule breakage, which happens to have been broken every single race this year (and many, many before this year as well).

JeremySmith · 8 Sep 2010, 23:50 (Ref:2756488)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

An insult to the public. We have been robbed. What little shred of integrity left in the 'sport' we love died today, along with the last vestige of respectability.

What is that? Why I do believe I can feel Enzo spinning in his grave!

Nah, finally, common sense. Now let's be rid of the rule and let the teams be run how the managers see fit.

There it is right there...Is this thread closed now then, or are we can to rattle on until cows produce green milk...?

And the title of this thread is ....

Marbot · 9 Sep 2010, 00:10 (Ref:2756496)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

You guys talk like Ferrari didnt receive any penalty. They got fined 100 000, the biggest penalty the stewards were allowed to issue.

Ferrari spend this on toilet paper every season. Maybe more than any other team, but still...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

I think that was enough for this very minor rule breakage, which happens to have been broken every single race this year (and many, many before this year as well).

Only Ferrari were caught breaking that particular rule. Something very weird is going on with front wings. No one has been caught breaking that particular rule yet. The trick seems to be not to get caught.

"Sorry" should have been the hardest word.

Marbot · 9 Sep 2010, 00:16 (Ref:2756498)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

And the title of this thread is ....

We could have written that thread title some time ago.

This is one that Jeff Tracy could rightly be proud of.

I'm off to watch Cricket, Snooker and Darts now. Sports with real integrity! LOL

Wims · 9 Sep 2010, 00:37 (Ref:2756504)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

...
Only Ferrari were caught breaking that particular rule. Something very weird is going on with front wings. No one has been caught breaking that particular rule yet. The trick seems to be not to get caught.

Yeah, I thought it was weird that Ferrari got "caught" for this one, as I do remember McLaren using the exact same words when they described to their #2 driver Kovalainen that Hamilton was closing up behind and that he was "faster than you". I guess its ok to use team orders when there's a distinct difference in skill and talent like it was between LH and HK, and not ok when you have two drivers fighting for the same title. Or maybe not, maybe it was all down to one of the drivers being named Alonso. Or possibly the red car? Hard to know these days, one thing is certain, F1 would be doing itself a favour by removing this unenforcable, un f1-like rule

Marbot · 9 Sep 2010, 00:50 (Ref:2756508)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wims

Yeah, I thought it was weird that Ferrari got "caught" for this one, as I do remember McLaren using the exact same words when they described to their #2 driver Kovalainen that Hamilton was closing up behind and that he was "faster than you".

Like I said. "Sorry" should have been the hardest word.

Marbot · 9 Sep 2010, 00:53 (Ref:2756511)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

At least we know (subliminally) where the 'brown envelope' came from.

wnut · 9 Sep 2010, 04:36 (Ref:2756541)

Quote Wims

You guys talk like Ferrari didnt receive any penalty. They got fined 100 000, the biggest penalty the stewards were allowed to issue. I think that was enough for this very minor rule breakage, which happens to have been broken every single race this year (and many, many before this year as well).

Yup Broken so often it is just a sham rule.

If the FIA had pursued Ferrari they would have been humiliated in court!

Stupid rule that is never applied - get rid of it!

climb · 9 Sep 2010, 06:17 (Ref:2756561)

My points:

1) During his team-boss career, Jean Todt has made a massive use of team orders, therefore we couldn't expect him to like this rule, which has been set by his predecessor

2) Ferrari has renewed Massa's contract, therefore we couldn't expect Todt not to be grateful on behalf of his beloved son (Nicolas, Massa's manager, remember?)

Marbot · 9 Sep 2010, 07:21 (Ref:2756577)

Yesterday's 'business meeting' sure went well for some.

jellison · 9 Sep 2010, 07:33 (Ref:2756585)

Laughable.

You should NEVER let a team mate through (unless very late in the season and even then it should be done so as not to bring the down the name of the Sport(!)).

CHRIST, can you imagine Senna EVER letting a Team mate through!! Beggar believe. If they (the one behind) can't get past other than moaning on the radio them they are not a proper Racer!

Always going to be this Crap outcome though!

climb · 9 Sep 2010, 07:38 (Ref:2756589)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jellison

Laughable.

..., can you imagine Senna EVER letting a Team mate through!! ...

Senna would never have done it, but what we are discussing is the other way round, i.e. the weaker driver (which Senna never was) letting the faster thru.

So I reverse your question: would Senna ever have refused to receive such a favour from his team, finding himself in Alonso's conditions? let me doubt it, IMO he would have appreciated it alot as well!

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