[Race] German GP to be cancelled?

[Marbot]

A race rumour.

It would seem that the German GP is looking like an extremely unlikely event for next season. Talks with Ecclestone have come to a halt, and that seems to be that. At least Bernie can now slot the French GP into a better spot. Always a silver lining........

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...e-nurburgring/

[wolfhound]

It would be a very sad day if there were to be no GP in Germany or France.

If one notes that Germany currently has 5 GP drivers and one team and is also responsible a quater of F1's engines (even if they are built in the UK). Then it makes one wonder about the cost of hosting a GP.
I know that the GP is not primarily responsible for the current situation but it is part of it.
I imagine if the race was profitable then Hockenheim would be ready to step in.

[Marbot]

It seems to be facing two problems. The first one being to keep itself commercially viable, and secondly, having to raise the cash to hand over to BE for a GP. Neither one seems to be going very well.

[BackmarkerUK]

I think there should be a German grand prix, but I'm not overly keen on the modern Nurburgring and Hockenheim circuits.

[wolfhound]

I don't think there are currently any other FIA grade 1 circuits in Germany. That alone would make it difficult for any other track to step in at short notice.

On another point if the new concorde agreement is similar to the old one with a certain quota for races in Europe then the loss of a German GP would but the ratio of races in Europe close to the limit. That would leave 7 races in Europe plus the two North American races meaning that a replacement race may be needed in Europe espeically if one of the Spanish races is dropped.

[BackmarkerUK]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

I don't think there are currently any other FIA grade 1 circuits in Germany. That alone would make it difficult for any other track to step in at short notice.

I believe the actual difference between grade 1 and grade 2 is just a matter of paying the application fee to become a grade 1 track - and there's not much point of doing that, unless you want to have F1 run there. So the Lausitzring, Norisiring, Oschersleben and Sachsenring are all possible, though I think only Lausitzring is long enough. Worth noting that Lausitzring is grade 1T, so F1 cars are already able to run there for testing purposes.

[wolfhound]

My understanding of the differences was primarilly with the paddock facilities. Grade 1 and 2 have the same track requirements but F1 wants extra paddock facilities but am not certain.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

On another point if the new concorde agreement is similar to the old one with a certain quota for races in Europe then the loss of a German GP would but the ratio of races in Europe close to the limit. That would leave 7 races in Europe plus the two North American races meaning that a replacement race may be needed in Europe espeically if one of the Spanish races is dropped.

thats a interesting point. would Russia or (if it came back) would Turkey be considered European events for those purposes?

if no France and if no Germany one wonders whats next. SPA has never been too far from lacking the ability to pay. as you say one of the Spanish events might get dropped and while i cant say that ill be sad if Valencia goes...its not looking like a bright future for F1 in Europe.

think what you will of BE but this really cant be what he wants to leave behind or at least i hope anyways.

[Purist]

Spain will be down to one race for 2013; Catalunya and Valencia will begin alternating next year. That has been set.

[JHamilton]

Why wouldn't they switch to Hockenheim?

[bella]

i believe hockenheim either couldn't afford or didn't want an annual race?

[BobHWS]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Why wouldn't they switch to Hockenheim?

Simple--because they cannot make a profit any more than the Nurburgring can.

Bernie gets an exorbitant sanction fee from the track and/or promoter. Then he gets all the TV money, all the money from track signage and all the Paddock Club money. The track/promoter is left only with ticket revenues. Ticket revenues do not cover costs and so there is no profit.

This is happening almost everywhere in Europe where there is no government subsidy for the race. It will be the death of F1 in Europe, unless some national, regional or local governments come up with subsidy money to pay Bernie.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

Simple--because they cannot make a profit any more than the Nurburgring can.

Bernie gets an exorbitant sanction fee from the track and/or promoter. Then he gets all the TV money, all the money from track signage and all the Paddock Club money. The track/promoter is left only with ticket revenues. Ticket revenues do not cover costs and so there is no profit.

This is happening almost everywhere in Europe where there is no government subsidy for the race. It will be the death of F1 in Europe, unless some national, regional or local governments come up with subsidy money to pay Bernie.

Wow, is that so ? Bernie wouldn't be so blind, would he ?

[TrapezeArtist]

Yes, I believe that is so. And unfortunately Bernie is that blind. He is presiding over another South Sea Bubble. Most of the Asian races will only last a few years, until the novelty wears off. Then Bernie is going to need Europe again, but by that time he may have killed the goose (or at least the goose will no longer be golden).

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Yes, I believe that is so. And unfortunately Bernie is that blind. He is presiding over another South Sea Bubble. Most of the Asian races will only last a few years, until the novelty wears off. Then Bernie is going to need Europe again, but by that time he may have killed the goose (or at least the goose will no longer be golden).

He probably figures he won't be around to deal with it so just keep sucking the golden goose dry until the end.

[johngee]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

This is happening almost everywhere in Europe where there is no government subsidy for the race. It will be the death of F1 in Europe, unless some national, regional or local governments come up with subsidy money to pay Bernie.

Unless F1 Management comes to its' commercial sense (unlikely, I know), I can't see any 'national, regional or local governments' fronting up a subsidy in the current economic climate. I think there will be a huge 'shake out' in European racing (and not just F1) in the next few years.

[alfettafan]

Originally Posted by BobHWS

This is happening almost everywhere in Europe where there is no government subsidy for the race. It will be the death of F1 in Europe, unless some national, regional or local governments come up with subsidy money to pay Bernie.

The sooner Bernie is gone the better...!

[wnut]

Originally Posted by alfettafan

The sooner Bernie is gone the better...!

Bernie has basically gone. He is managing the deal for a bunch of banks that paid way over the odds for the whole deal.

When Bernie goes it will get really really interesting imo!

He built it, and he keeps it together! he definitely isn't all bad, and has vehemently opposed a lot of bad decisions that have been made despite his knowledge and influence!

Who will his successor be?

[nicanary]

In the search for adequate funding for the sport (which admittedly was needed), Bernie has created a monster. The Emperor's New Clothes .

If I'm still around in 10 years' time,it'll be interesting to see what F1 consists of.

[p-matt]

I'm wondering if this could pave the way for a French / German GP alternation. It would make sense for France to host the race in 2013 in the German GP date. It would solve the date issue with Le Mans.

[bella]

that's my thought too, p-matt - seems decidedly sensible and logical.

so obviously it won't happen

[Yannick]

Looking at the current developments, I expect a calendar containing neither French nor German GP for 2013. Hockenheim will be back in 2014.

[formerf1champ]

Kind of funny, what's evolved. Take races away from Europe, to the parts of the world that couldn't give a **** about motor racing/F1. Then, get them to start races at a time that is most helpful for Europeans to watch. No, it's actually pathetic.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by alfettafan

The sooner Bernie is gone the better...!

But after he's gone, Formula One would be on life-support after some selected races in Europe are gone thanks to Bernie.

Still, who would race in Hockenheim againe after Bernie altered it for his money?

[davyboy]

It will be very sad to loose the French and German Grands Prix, but as Eddie Jordan said, F1 is now a TV sport with only a small minority of the viewing audience attending the events trackside. Hosting a Grand Prix has become more financially attractive for emerging/wealthy economies - whose Governments are very happy to bank roll them - than it is for the old guard and it would appear that from that perspective the circus is following the money so to speak.