tyre advice please ..

[armchair racer]

I ordered some tyres from Blackcircle.com ( yokohama A539) and was informed they are out of stock with not a lot of chance getting them ....I have a Daihatsu Charade gtti which i am currently registering for the Curborough champs. to get a feel for the car ( will spread my wings next yr)..the tyres are 175/60/14 , an awkward size and not a lot of choice ..The best choice seems to be Yokohama A drive ...But my problem is , Im unsure of their eligability concerning the Blue book ...The list doesnt directly mention A drive tyres ....and it doesnt mention them in list B1 either ...They are a road tyre and not some special or track day tyre ...Anyone with any experiance of these tyres ???

[Matthews Dad]

Would suggest that you speak with the eligibility scrutineer for the championship before selecting tyre,

They should be able to advise on if its on the list,, there is a lot of debate about which tyres fit which list as the blue book lists go out of date quickly but from the car i am guessing that you are running in production class so tyre choice is quite limited to lists 1A and maybe 1B depending upon championship regs as far as i know

[jonners]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

...but here we go.

List 1A is a complete waste of time for precisely the reason that this question has been asked.

Personally, I do not understand the objection to 1B tyres but that's beside the point.

The issue is - if you want to ban 1B tyres then ban 1B tyres.

1A championships should simply specify any road legal tyre that is not on List 1B.

Perfectly good tyres fall out of List 1A. Perfectly good tyres never get onto List 1A. What's the point of List 1A??

[911thillclimber]

I for one agree with you.

I've been through the 1A and 1B stuff in C1 class (Sports Cars Mod Prod) and see no point in 1A, but every advantage to !B where good tyres abound, and some are esp good for hills (ie fast warm-up and will do easy 3K miles on the road if not 6K.)

The recent tyre issue has added a lot of confusion to our simple sport.

If a basic Production Car class was in a Championship then the driver could race on the tyres it came on from the showroom or a 1B tyre.


I think the argument that allowing only 1A tyres to save the competitor money is not valid. Since when was the sport a budget one?

If you want to keep up with your class mates get better tyres or drive like a god; or of course start with the best car that suits you...and use 1B's so you can still drive there and back like real road going class cars should and generally do.

[MGDavid]

back to AR's question - it looks like there's a typo in the BB. At the bottom of the RH column on page 201 there's mention of A-drive and Parada tyres under Pirelli in list 1B, I'm positive these are misplaced and should be under Yokohama, possibly in the column to the left i.e. in List 1A. Phone the MSA and ask someone...

[andye30m3]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

I think the argument that allowing only 1A tyres to save the competitor money is not valid. Since when was the sport a budget one?

I don't really agree with this statement at all, I started sprinting last year attracted to the standard production class as a budget form of motorsport, I ran for the whole year and outside of entry fee's spent very little as the car I used was my everyday car meaning i turned up, screwed the timing strut to the car and was ready to go, Other than increase brake and tyre wear it cost me next to nothing.

This year in order to be competitive I've had to buy a second set of wheels as list 1B tyres are not really suitable for every day road use, not really use I'll even use them on the airfield sprints as I'm told the surface will kill R888's which I went for.

So I've now spend £750ish pounds to go slightly faster but I doubt it will add anything to the competition over just specifying any road legal tyre thats not 1B. In reality £750 at least 50% of what I spent doing a years sprinting in 2009.

what was the reason that the MSA allowed 1B tyres in the road going classes anyway?

[911thillclimber]

The reasoning is:
Some cars are sold with 1B's straight from the showroom in increasing numbers.
To make the owners who bought these car run on 1A tyres will void the insurance on the road and be sub-standard to the OEM spec.

I take your point on the economy of a road car running in full road trim on 1A's.
If you come to a track with 1A's and the team mate is on 1B's he will have quite an advantage all other variables being equal.

Chances are to get to the class win you need to use these advantages unless the driver is head and shoulders more talented/braver.

Sprint class exist(ed?) for showroom class but iirc it allowed 1'' wider wheels? Straight away there's an expense but you can still drive it on the road, but your insurance company may not like it unless declaired.

Tht 1A v 1B discussion always ends up here, stock road class with certain tweeks adds expense if you want to be at the front, and the tyre change here makes this even worse, but thet are better, and on some performance cars essential for legality reasons.

I started in the stock road class, 1B's came along, then full slicks. This is in a Roadgoing Mod Prod class! Slicks in a road going class? Yep.

I'm now in sports Libre, and my old car is on Kumho 1B's on 1'' wider rims, tyres are 2.5 times more expensive....but i took 3 + seconds out of my times compared to 1A's.

[jonners]

if you havem to buy tyres from Kwik Fit why not make everyone get shocks, brake pads and exhausts there too. I've said it before and not everyone shares my point of view but the logic is the same if you ask me!!

[targa6226]

I am also just changing from 1A to 1B and wonder if anyone has experience of the difference in performance between Goodyear Eagle F1 GSD3 and Yokohama AO48's. In particular in damp/wet conditions on a speed hillclimb. I am in a Porsche 911 with 16" wheels and drive to events. Any other tyre recommendations will be welcome.

[Dan Friel]

In true wet conditions I would expect the Eagle F1's to have a significant advantage over the Yoko's.

For hillclimbs you'd also want the softest 048 compound. They would get mashed on the road.

I think that most would recommend two sets of wheels / tyres. Will they fit in the car??

[FBF25T]

Originally Posted by jonners

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

...but here we go.

List 1A is a complete waste of time for precisely the reason that this question has been asked.

Personally, I do not understand the objection to 1B tyres but that's beside the point.

The issue is - if you want to ban 1B tyres then ban 1B tyres.

1A championships should simply specify any road legal tyre that is not on List 1B.

Perfectly good tyres fall out of List 1A. Perfectly good tyres never get onto List 1A. What's the point of List 1A??

No that does not work, Michelin TB5s in the three groove version are road legal Emarked and cost £165+VAT minimum.

1Bs are a hell of a lot more expensive over a season, we have double driven at N.Weald and Curborough, there is now only one road legal tyre on the car. 1Bs are about £100 a corner good 1As £40 ish

A 1B will be quickr in the wet unless there is stsnding water.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by FBF25T

No that does not work, Michelin TB5s in the three groove version are road legal Emarked and cost £165+VAT minimum.

1Bs are a hell of a lot more expensive over a season, we have double driven at N.Weald and Curborough, there is now only one road legal tyre on the car. 1Bs are about £100 a corner good 1As £40 ish

A 1B will be quickr in the wet unless there is stsnding water.

Last time i looked (some time ago admittedly) TB's were on 1B so if 1B tyres are banned there's no problem. If they're not on 1B why not say all 1B tyres and Michelin TB's are banned. In the ASWMC regs they've been saying for years that any road tyre is fine except crossplies - keeps out Avon FF tyres - works fine and it a sensible approach. 1A seems to be a case of unnecessary unintelligent over-regulation with unfortunate consequences.

If it's a question of cost it's a different argument but I've seen road legal cars competing in very low level events on 1A tyres costing that much - yes, we're talking about Porsches and the like but that changes nothing