What if: Merging American Sports Cars.

[Kiki]

Of the two major road racing series in the US, I'm gonna have to say ALMS piques my interest much more than Grand Am. Regardless, I had a crazy idea so bear with me.

LMP1 - There's likely only three LMP2 entries for 2009. All of which can be converted to P1 spec with little work. That gives a relatively healthy field of LMP1 factory teams and privateers. (ACO compliant)

DP - The near-spec racers provide great racing but not much in the way of high-tech. Great for privateers with no interest in running at Le Mans.

GT1 - For the sake of simplicity lets say GT500 rules. Not as fast as DPs, but certainly not going to be bothered by GT2s. A costly but interesting classification. Let the tube-frame Grand-Am guys run with bigger wings, etc.

GT2 - No change (ACO compliant)

You want healthy fields? Merge Grand-Am and ALMS. Now I know, it'll never happen, but how cool would it be? Hell, what if ACO decided to run this class architecture?

There could still be separate Grand-Am and ALMS races, like Daytona 24h (LMP's on an oval?!) and Petit (DP's through the esses!?) but the joint races could make up the majority of the season and would make for damn good road racing.

[AU N EGL]

Dont tell the GARR - They are just happy with the way things are as is.

[juicy sushi]

Originally Posted by Kiki

Of the two major road racing series in the US, I'm gonna have to say ALMS piques my interest much more than Grand Am. Regardless, I had a crazy idea so bear with me.

LMP1 - There's likely only three LMP2 entries for 2009. All of which can be converted to P1 spec with little work. That gives a relatively healthy field of LMP1 factory teams and privateers. (ACO compliant)

converted to LMP with little work? uh, no. it would be very expensive and not very productive.

DP - The near-spec racers provide great racing but not much in the way of high-tech. Great for privateers with no interest in running at Le Mans.

they're not very cheap to run. the better teams are spending multiple millions per year to fight for a championship.

GT1 - For the sake of simplicity lets say GT500 rules. Not as fast as DPs, but certainly not going to be bothered by GT2s. A costly but interesting classification. Let the tube-frame Grand-Am guys run with bigger wings, etc.

gt500 is not equivalent to grand-am gt, and is nothing like what you're talking about. they're much faster, and much more expensive. plus, current grand-am gt is about as fast as FIA GT3. they're not GT1 capable. GT1 is a dead concept, you may as well accept it.

GT2 - No change (ACO compliant)

You want healthy fields? Merge Grand-Am and ALMS. Now I know, it'll never happen, but how cool would it be? Hell, what if ACO decided to run this class architecture?

There could still be separate Grand-Am and ALMS races, like Daytona 24h (LMP's on an oval?!) and Petit (DP's through the esses!?) but the joint races could make up the majority of the season and would make for damn good road racing.

it would add cars, but the two series have very different management with very different goals. a merger just isn't something that's going to happen. you may as well as the DTM to merge with the LMS...

[Speed-King]

Here's another what if:

Assuming the economy gets even tougher than it is today and the powers that be come to the conclusion that America can't sustain two major sportscar series and decided to meet halfway between the ACO and the NASCAR philosophy to phase in a new ruleset.
It would look like this:
- 2 classes of Prototypes: LMP(1) and AP (American Prototype)
- LMP is the current LMP1-cars with all the innovation and technology of the current LMPs
- AP is a hybrid between DP and 2011-LMP2: tubeframe-chassis with a carbon-fibre safety-cell like a DTM-car, roadster design, production based engines and cost-saving measures like steel brakes. Manufacturers in LMP are encouraged to supply engines for the AP-cars. Cars must be available to all teams wishing to purchase one. No factory cars.
- a 14 race schedule consisting of Daytona/Sebring*/VIR/Barber/Road America*/Watkins Glen/Mid Ohio/Mosport*/Montreal/Lime Rock/Utah*/New Jersey/PLM*/Laguna Seca*
- The LMP-championship consists of 6 races (indicated by *) to help out privateers in LMP.
- The AP-cars run the full schedule and are the headlining class at the 8 events where the LMP-cars are not part of the action.
- Like in FIA-GT two-driver changes per race are mandatory, this allows the the LMP-manufacturers to help out teams running their engines in the AP-category by lending their factory drivers to them in the AP-only races.


Now, why would anyone do something like this?
- First of all: This thread is about reckless speculation and I am a bit bored, so don't take it too seriously.
- I think that the philosophy behind the DP-experiment as a privateer-friendly class is right.
- The execution however is severly flawed. I like the cars, but they failed to catch the imagination of a big part of the sportscar fan-base and can therefore not considered to be a full sucess.
- The AP-class is therefore designed to retain the strenghts of the DP-concept while doing away with its failures.
- LMP-cars and privateer teams seem to work in Europe with a relatively short schedule of relatively long races. They don't seem to work that well on an American style schedule with a greater number of shorter races.
That's why their participation in my Imaginary American Sportscar Championship (IASC) is limited to 6 races, each of them four hours or longer.

Discuss!

[mountainstar]

I want nothing to do with Nascar. They already have too much influence in american motorsport.

[alwayswatching]

Good ideas & thoughts and to some degree I concurr, however, with the greed and arrogance of the Frances & Nascar.............NEVER going to happen!!!

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I want nothing to do with Nascar. They already have too much influence in american motorsport.

Wiser words have never been spoken. To that list you can add Tony George.

[johntt]

Heres my idea:

Full switch to ACO rules, have the P1, P2 and GT2 classes. No need for DPs or GT1.

The GARRA teams that can't fit into ALMS can filter into Speed World Challenge, Patron GT3 Challenge. Keep the KONI Challenge, have heard good things about it as a series.

The Daytona 24 will be a non-championship race using ACO Protos and GTs, an independent event in the sense that Le Mans is.

As for the schedule (all 2 hour 45 minute races unless noted):
Daytona 24 (Non-championship)
1. Sebring 12 Hours
2. St Petersburg 2 hours
3. Houston 2 hours
4. Long Beach 1hr 40 mins
5. Miller Motorsports Park
6. VIR
*Break for LM*
7. Daytona 250 miles
8. Lime Rock
9. Mid Ohio
10. Road America 4 hours
11. Mosport
12. Trois Rivieres
13. Watkins Glen 6 Hours
14. Sears Point
15. Portland
16. Road Atlanta Petit Le Mans 1000 miles
17. New Jersey (provided it can be brought up to spec)
18. Laguna Seca 4 Hours.

[JAG]

How about IMSA see's out '09 as best they can, then adopts 2011 regs a year earlier.

At the very least that would see Dyson and any larger P2 teams back in P1 against Acura and Corsa, both of which have easy access to a 3.4l engine, leaving P2 open for smaller budget teams to run production engined LMP's.

Currently P1 and P2 costs are similar, but once teams have the opportunity to run a 911 or Chevy GT2 motor, costs should drop and potentially more teams will enter.

If the GT regs aren't clear by mid year, retain GT2 as is, and introduce GT3 with the full knowledge it will be a performance balanced class.

[Kiki]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

This thread is about reckless speculation and I am a bit bored, so don't take it too seriously.

I'm glad someone gets it.

[Bob Riebe]

GTO-- no diffusers, no wings unlimited tire width, over 220 inch cubed class.
Weight to displacement, blower equivlency.

GTU-- sane as gto except under 220 inches cubed.

Sports racer/ prototype-- unrestricted diesels, no wings, no aero aids.

[AU N EGL]

isn't 220 CI kinda small ??

[duke_toaster]

3.6 litres is certainly not small!

[slick42]

I think I like Grand Am more than the ALMS. (dont hurt me) The cars may be slower and uglier but theres more competition, and overall better racing

I think merging the two together just wouldn't work. I don't think Ganassi, Stallings, Penske, Childress, Brumos would be content with class wins which is likely all the DPs would come out with. Plus all the testing that would be needed to take an LMP to Daytona and Homestead.

I don't know why i've never gotten into ALMS, it just might have been the fact that it was basically Audi winning over and over which i didnt find all that entertaining. I do like the ALMS schedule better than Grand Ams, i wish Grand Am went to Sebring, Road America and Road Atlanta.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

3.6 litres is certainly not small!

Depends on your perspective.

[HORNDAWG]

What if: Merging American Sports Cars.


NO!!




L.P.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by slick42

I don't know why i've never gotten into ALMS, it just might have been the fact that it was basically Audi winning over and over which i didnt find all that entertaining. I do like the ALMS schedule better than Grand Ams, i wish Grand Am went to Sebring, Road America and Road Atlanta.

Audi may win the P1 class over and over, but the ovrall victories have been tightly contested between the Audis, Porsches and Acuras. GT1 has only had the Corvettes, but the sound they make is amazing . GT2 has been a tight battle between Porsche and Ferrari and halfway through next year we'll see Corvette joining them.

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

What if: Merging American Sports Cars.


NO!!

If it was a 'merger' in the mould of CC/IRL with ALMS playing the part of IRL then I wouldn't complain

[PorscheFanNo1]

Originally Posted by johntt

If it was a 'merger' in the mould of CC/IRL with ALMS playing the part of IRL then I wouldn't complain

Neither would I.

[slick42]

Originally Posted by johntt

Audi may win the P1 class over and over, but the ovrall victories have been tightly contested between the Audis, Porsches and Acuras. GT1 has only had the Corvettes, but the sound they make is amazing . GT2 has been a tight battle between Porsche and Ferrari and halfway through next year we'll see Corvette joining them.

I'll probably watch it a little but closer next year, its probably just impatience on my part

[extramundane]

Originally Posted by johntt

If it was a 'merger' in the mould of CC/IRL with ALMS playing the part of IRL then I wouldn't complain

Yeah, because that's a strong business plan to follow.

'Course, the way things are shaking out, the ALMS might well be playing the part of the IRL this year.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by extramundane

Yeah, because that's a strong business plan to follow.

'Course, the way things are shaking out, the ALMS might well be playing the part of the IRL this year.

I am guessing that is sarcasm as the IRL is not doing well, includint Indy.
During what is supposed to be a three year centenial celebration, there new engine rules seems to be as popular as a used up whore, of course they have to get that far.