Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Single Seater Racing > Formula One


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 8 Sep 2017, 08:18 (Ref:3765337)   #61
Armco Bender
Llama Assassin and Sheep Botherer
Veteran
 
Armco Bender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
New Zealand
International Sheep Ambassador
Posts: 3,709
Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!Armco Bender is going for a new world record!
Heres an idea,........no grid penalties,turn out the lights and race to the chequered flag with no penalties..
Armco Bender is online now  
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2017, 10:28 (Ref:3765359)   #62
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,238
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yes, let's have less complicated rules and actually have some proper racing
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2017, 20:20 (Ref:3765487)   #63
Aysedasi
Ten-Tenths Hall of Fame
20KPINAL
 
Aysedasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
England
Lymington, New Forest, England
Posts: 29,733
Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!Aysedasi is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Works for me!
Aysedasi is offline  
__________________
211
Quote
Old 8 Sep 2017, 22:41 (Ref:3765511)   #64
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,318
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Yes, let's have less complicated rules and actually have some proper racing
Sadly... easy to say, hard to implement.



Richard

(PS: Is there a rule against animated GIFs? I looked at the forum FAQ and nothing jumped out at me.)
Richard Casto is online now  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2017, 10:10 (Ref:3765618)   #65
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,238
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Yeah, they always go for complicated solutions instead of going for the obviously simple ones
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2017, 11:25 (Ref:3765627)   #66
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,288
wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Sadly... easy to say, hard to implement.



Richard

(PS: Is there a rule against animated GIFs? I looked at the forum FAQ and nothing jumped out at me.)
Epic Richard.

& hope not.
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2017, 11:50 (Ref:3765629)   #67
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,318
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Yeah, they always go for complicated solutions instead of going for the obviously simple ones
Actually my point above is... what people think are obvious solutions do not work. Example of general outcomes are...

1. Destroys the commercial viability of a series.
2. Is not viewed as the pinnacle of the sport.
2. There is "real racing", but the racing is far from close and by extension is not entertaining for the broader audience.

To be more specific...

A very simple set of rules might have very little in the way of technical regulations (aka "Run what ya brung!"). This would result in largest budget wins and little or no close racing. Eventually those who can't afford to win leaves and the series dies or is highly unstable and volatile (not commercial viable) and gravitates toward a small niche series.

On the other end of the spectrum, is a set of simple technical regulations but implemented via fully spec equipment with zero development allowed. Throw in a budget cap as well just to make sure money is not spent somewhere. Anyone could participate and win. Racing should be very close. But why would anyone consider that as the pinnacle of Motorsports? The series would not attract important teams (i.e. Ferrari,etc.) and by extension top drivers. It might exist as a niche sport (i.e. International race of champions)

IMHO, F1 (Pinnacle sport with top teams and drivers) needs to sit somewhere in the middle of those scenarios... which would require careful and difficult crafting of regulations (by my definition not simple or easy).

Richard
Richard Casto is online now  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 12 Sep 2017, 13:05 (Ref:3766252)   #68
mceci1
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Australia
Posts: 575
mceci1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by TzeiTzei View Post
It's there to stop the rich teams from changing their engines for every session.

The laughter should be aimed at Honda and Renault, who just can't get their act together.
20 years ago teams did it with no issue, so why are teams struggling now, I think the deficit is to be blamed on the grid penalties as its an eggshell game, it can be a worry to develop and then screw their teams over through a failure
mceci1 is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Sep 2017, 15:00 (Ref:3766280)   #69
S griffin
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,238
S griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridS griffin should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Gary Anderson makes a good point, if you pardon the pun, on constructor points deductions. It would mean a team fighting for the title would just keep changing parts when they need to if they concentrated more on the drivers' title
S griffin is offline  
__________________
He who dares wins!
He who hesitates is lost!
Quote
Old 12 Sep 2017, 16:41 (Ref:3766307)   #70
chillibowl
Veteran
 
chillibowl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Canada
winnipeg, canada
Posts: 5,419
chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!chillibowl is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Gary Anderson makes a good point, if you pardon the pun, on constructor points deductions. It would mean a team fighting for the title would just keep changing parts when they need to if they concentrated more on the drivers' title
teams are clever like that.
chillibowl is online now  
__________________
What shall we use to fill the empty spaces, where waves of hunger roar?
Shall we set out across the sea of faces in search of more and more applause?
Shall we buy a new guitar? Shall we drive a more powerful car?
Quote
Old 12 Sep 2017, 20:35 (Ref:3766371)   #71
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,318
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
Gary Anderson makes a good point, if you pardon the pun, on constructor points deductions. It would mean a team fighting for the title would just keep changing parts when they need to if they concentrated more on the drivers' title
I made a similar observation on page two of this thread about the chance for teams to manipulate the drivers championship.

Richard
Richard Casto is online now  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2017, 07:53 (Ref:3766445)   #72
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Bedfordshire almost in Pakistan
Posts: 3,544
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
I made a similar observation on page two of this thread about the chance for teams to manipulate the drivers championship.

Richard
Forget; "May the best man win."

"May the richest team win.", and frankly it has always been that way, and always will be until we revert to a 'Formula Ford' style championship where everyone drives an identical car.

Oh1 Each car will feature a covered cockpit, Drag Reduction System, and electric power. Roll on!
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2017, 08:45 (Ref:3766449)   #73
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
England
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 4,115
midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!
>>>>>>A very simple set of rules might have very little in the way of technical regulations (aka "Run what ya brung!"). This would result in largest budget wins and little or no close racing.

I beg to differ. The current rules leave little room for innovation without spending money but think over the years how brilliant design within a loose framework has allowed smaller teams to shine.

The tiny Cooper Car Company standing motor racing on its head by putting the engine behind the driver.

Colin Chapman in his early days had pretty meagre funding compared to the might of the Ferrari etc.

Adrian Newey getting the March/Leyton House to the sharp end of the grid with his fantastic aerodynamics.

The Cosworth DFV.

Ross Brawn in 2009.

There are many examples of garagistes sticking one over the grandes constructeurs thanks to innovation and thinking outside a pretty loose box. Make the rules so prescriptive that we basically have a spec car and we end up where we are today - it costs billions for a tiny incremental increase in performance, and the smaller teams can't engineer their way to the front.

As for close racing - has F1 ever been about that? From the pre-war Auto Unions and Mercedes through JYS's greatest race - he won by FOUR MINUTES - to the Mercedes steamroller of today, F1 has been a celebration of engineering excellence. If you want close racing go watch Formula Ford Kent at your local track. Great overtakes like the Schumacher/Hakkinen Spa epic are remembered because of their rarity not their frequency.



Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2017, 13:42 (Ref:3766529)   #74
Richard Casto
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Richard Casto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
United States
Durham, NC, USA
Posts: 2,318
Richard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameRichard Casto will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgetman View Post
I beg to differ. The current rules leave little room for innovation without spending money but think over the years how brilliant design within a loose framework has allowed smaller teams to shine.

The tiny Cooper Car Company standing motor racing on its head by putting the engine behind the driver.

Colin Chapman in his early days had pretty meagre funding compared to the might of the Ferrari etc.

Adrian Newey getting the March/Leyton House to the sharp end of the grid with his fantastic aerodynamics.

The Cosworth DFV.

Ross Brawn in 2009.
I appreciate the conversation. And to your point, never say never. It's always possible for low cost innovation to occasionally create clever solutions.

But most of those examples are from an era when everyone was still figuring out how to make fast cars. Today it is more understood. IMHO, it is much harder today to innovate in ways that result in radical performance increases. I would argue the Brawn example doesn't even fit your argument. They were well funded. Honda just bailed out at the wrong time.

Lastly it's likely any dramatic innovation would be short lived and the "Garagista" quickly overtaken again. For lighting to strike multiple times for a single small team (to allow them to constantly perform better than their budget would allow), it would require some type of rare genius designer or design team. And how would a small team expect to retain that talent long term? They couldn't. Those with money would scoop them up. So occasionally blips can happen, but likely have no staying power.

Richard
Richard Casto is online now  
__________________
Money can't buy happiness, but somehow it's more comfortable to cry in a Porsche than a Kia.
Quote
Old 13 Sep 2017, 15:46 (Ref:3766554)   #75
bauble
Veteran
 
bauble's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Bedfordshire almost in Pakistan
Posts: 3,544
bauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famebauble will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
In autumn 1932 motorsport's governing body in Paris unveiled a new formula for Grand Prix racing, which took effect two years later: all racing cars were to weigh no more than 750 kilograms excluding fuel, oil, coolant and tyres.
This limit was based on the assumption that only lightweight engines could be installed in lightweight vehicles and that this would therefore limit the racing cars' output and speed. However, the motorsport association underestimated advances in technology.

This is the type of Formula envisaged by Adrian Newey, as being the ideal,
bauble is offline  
__________________
When asking; "Is he joking?" Best assume yes!
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Rules] Hamilton 5 Place Penalty? Peter Mallett Formula One 55 17 Apr 2012 01:49
10 place penalty for Hamilton and Rosberg alonso11 Formula One 299 24 Jun 2008 03:06
Five place penalty for Kovalainen Down F0rce Formula One 107 23 Jun 2008 17:42
Vettel gets 5 place penalty Marbot Formula One 13 19 May 2008 21:11
Massa first to be hit with '10 place penalty' following De la Rosa Incident Damon Formula One 3 17 Sep 2002 12:41


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 23:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2016 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.