Toll-HSV knee-jerk reaction??

Uncle Cranker · 20 Sep 2007, 23:55 (Ref:2019379)

Amid closed door muttering of "we-was-wrong", Rob Crawford rings in the changes.

Some positve spin on not winning ?????

"We took a little insurance with a safety-first, wait-and-see position at Sandown to ensure that at least one of our drivers went through to the next round with a points lead intact," team boss Rob Crawford explained.

READ ALL ABOUT IT

Aarrgh8 · 21 Sep 2007, 01:02 (Ref:2019397)

Knee jerk reaction, or putting your best drivers in the one car? Either way, it's the right way to go if you're serious about winning Bathurst, rather than conserving title points. I like it, despite the risks associated with having your 'eggs in one basket'.

Average Punter · 21 Sep 2007, 02:29 (Ref:2019426)

With Tander's history of early bingles at Bathurst, who wants a wager on Rick starting and doing the 3 stints???

Pro Racer · 21 Sep 2007, 02:44 (Ref:2019431)

Tander to qualify (this time with the sector lights working) Rick to Start but i think Tander will definatly do the later stints as he seems to be more racey towards the end of races.

maybe this was their plan all along, or it might be a knee-jerk reaction i guess something we might never know

.

agosling · 21 Sep 2007, 10:32 (Ref:2019600)

I have serious doubts that HSV ever considered going to Bathurst without Rick and Garth driving together. Sandown is just a sprint race these days so why would you put you best team together if they were in with a chance at the championship.

To go to Bathurst without your best team, even with the risks that that involves isn't going to happen.

SSbaby · 21 Sep 2007, 13:00 (Ref:2019684)

Well they put Skaife and Tander in the gun car last year... that didn't work out. HSVDT used hindsight to split their main drivers this time. Triple8 really didn't have much choice other than to pair the two main drivers together. If you were HSVDT, do you go for the win or do you hedge your bets and give either driver the opportunity to win the ch/ship on their own accord? The predicament was the same last year and they went the Triple8 route, which didn't work out for Tander, but it was good for Rick.

I thought the ch/ship was more pertinent to the team than either a Sandown or Bathurst win?

agosling · 21 Sep 2007, 13:44 (Ref:2019709)

I agree, I want to see Rick or Garth win the championship, but it would be nice for them to win Bathurst again as well.

It's a tough call but it looks like they want to go for the Bathurst win, I hope it works out.

sizzle · 21 Sep 2007, 13:52 (Ref:2019714)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aarrgh8

Knee jerk reaction, or

damned if they do or damned if they don't.

If they do and it doesn't work Billy is going to crucify them, if they don't he will anyway.

mmciau · 21 Sep 2007, 20:50 (Ref:2020076)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSbaby

Well they put Skaife and Tander in the gun car last year... that didn't work out. HSVDT used hindsight to split their main drivers this time. Triple8 really didn't have much choice other than to pair the two main drivers together. If you were HSVDT, do you go for the win or do you hedge your bets and give either driver the opportunity to win the ch/ship on their own accord? The predicament was the same last year and they went the Triple8 route, which didn't work out for Tander, but it was good for Rick.

I thought the ch/ship was more pertinent to the team than either a Sandown or Bathurst win?

That car had a suspension failure at Sandown 06 - while it was going, it was a front runner

Mike

stido · 21 Sep 2007, 23:38 (Ref:2020158)

Damn shame really. R Kelly is one of the most annoying characters in v8's, I was hoping he wouldnt partner Tander. I would rather see Tander win than Kelly... Now I hope the car brakes down...

Go Ingall at Bathurst!!!

bestfit · 22 Sep 2007, 00:09 (Ref:2020173)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzle

damned if they do or damned if they don't.

If they do and it doesn't work Billy is going to crucify them, if they don't he will anyway.

They must be quaking in their boots.

billy bigtime · 22 Sep 2007, 00:40 (Ref:2020177)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sizzle

damned if they do or damned if they don't.

If they do and it doesn't work Billy is going to crucify them, if they don't he will anyway.

That's a bit harsh

Chris - Melb · 22 Sep 2007, 00:58 (Ref:2020179)

Because Kelly and Tander survived Sandown with their huge championship lead intact, they can take a punt at Bathurst.

It could be considered a risk to the Kelly owned team to keep the two drivers seperate, as there would be a possibilty of Tander doing well and Rick having a DNF.

As it stands, Rick will stay ahead of Alonso, sorry, Tander in the championship no matter what happens at Bathurst.

Clever.

Wood-duck · 22 Sep 2007, 01:24 (Ref:2020186)

They had to go this way the Toll boys... I am sure that Holden dont want a Ford win 2 years in a row and this car - #1 - is the best chance Holden have of a winner from the 'red corner'.

Putting two of the championships form steerers together and going for it is terrific to see. Perhaps now they are racing for the Peter Brock trophy adds significance to winning this race (if that was possible beforehand).

What it does do is set-up an enthralling race week - the top championship runners (Tander/R.Kelly,Lowndes/Whincup and Skaife/T.Kelly) working together to achieve Bathurst glory. At this stage it looks very much like #1 -v- #2 -v- #888. Are we there yet ?

Having all this chat about the "b" drivers and should they be paired with 'a' drivers makes an interesting argument. In last year's 1000 - the fastest race lap recorded by a 'non main game driver' was by Luke Youlden, followed by Greg Ritter and the next best was... Richard Lyons. Was a bit shocked when i discovered that little bit of Trivia, but these 3 in particular were faster in the race (over 1 lap anyway) than many 'full timers' namely:

McConville,Dumbrell,Holdsworth (interesting that Ritter was faster than Lee in the 2nd string car),Wilson,Bargwanna,Morris,Bowe,A.Jones & B.Jones to name a few.

Not a bad effort from Lyons considering it was only his 2nd ever V8 race, and his first time at Bathurst and has come from a non-touring car background. You have to start to think what he will do this year... he might even make the shoot-out given the pace of #88 at Sandown...

In the race last year he (Lyons) was also faster than Seton, Baird, Besnard, Ellery,Weel,Pretty,Owen Kelly & Halliday... and he was a second a lap quicker than Simonsen.. so dont rule out the smiling Irishman for a decent result this year (and he does have Campbell Little calling his race....). You have to had it to Roland Dane - he can pick 'em...

Are you faster than a 'b' grader ?

**GTRMagic** · 22 Sep 2007, 01:51 (Ref:2020197)

I dont know if the comparison works quite like that... the 'A' v's the 'B' driver in the same car means more than comparing disparate cars, teams, strategies etc etc

Wood-duck · 22 Sep 2007, 04:19 (Ref:2020234)

True GTR, it is a very generalised comparsion and does not take into account the performance of given equipment, time of day the time was set, tyre condition etc etc - but it illistrates the point I am getting at.

Most of the conjucture seems to lead toward if you are not in the 'main game' then you will not be on the absolute pace. That is not entirely true - we do have some 'non regular' drivers that are absolutely capable of lapping quickly - Ritter, Youlden the standouts from 2006, and in cases - quicker than some regulars (albeit in differing equipment).

So it is not entirely inconceivable that a car could win the race without two "a-gamers" driving.

Courtney/Besnard would probably be the favorite of this group leading up to the event. It would require some strategic luck, but not impossible by any means...

SSbaby · 22 Sep 2007, 04:46 (Ref:2020236)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmciau

That car had a suspension failure at Sandown 06 - while it was going, it was a front runner

Mike

Yes and at Bathurst it suffered a slipping clutch after grabbing pole.

Ch/ship over for Tander... and no wonder he feels Skaife is his bad luck charm.

**GTRMagic** · 22 Sep 2007, 05:11 (Ref:2020242)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

Courtney/Besnard would probably be the favorite of this group leading up to the event. It would require some strategic luck, but not impossible by any means...

This is a dark horse where previous outings havent really shown a lot of finishing prowess.... although there is some strong speed on occassion.

Mr Courtney's ability to find flat tyres on occassion might however suggest a return to the SBR AU days, when Mr Ambrose ate through front rubber like it was free....

No doubting Mr Besnard's speed @ Sandown... he wasnt too far behind the hot cars in front... in a unit that wasnt as quick in race pace...

WebberForWDC · 23 Sep 2007, 03:19 (Ref:2020767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wood-duck

They had to go this way the Toll boys... I am sure that Holden dont want a Ford win 2 years in a row and this car - #1 - is the best chance Holden have of a winner from the 'red corner'.

Geeze that better be happy conceding wins, as Ford are on their way to 6-7 wins in a row to catch up for some lunacy as parity injustices, Holden backmaker Faulkner/Morris related injustices and flukey safety car timing pot luck in 2004 avoiding total Holden wipeout that year! The fortunes at Bathurst will be well and truly on the Ford side for many years to come will they not!

stido · 23 Sep 2007, 03:29 (Ref:2020770)

If its a wet race, Ingall has proven he is brilliant in the wet (last to 3rd at OP) Youlden like everyone says, is a great driver also.

I would rate Ingall/Youlden a very capable podium finish. Courtney/Seton only just managed to keep ingall off the podium last year.

keep this in mind!

Chatters · 24 Sep 2007, 10:26 (Ref:2021585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stido

I would rate Ingall/Youlden a very capable podium finish. Courtney/Seton only just managed to keep ingall off the podium last year.

keep this in mind!

Yes, SETON managed a podium finish. SETON, the same one who is past his game and will no longer be on the pace...?

agosling · 24 Sep 2007, 10:34 (Ref:2021590)

Sorry WebberForWDC but Holden have given Ford there one win for the decade just so they don't get totally disheartened and give up. Holden will be winning Bathurst for quite a few years to come before they give Ford another one.

Pro Racer · 24 Sep 2007, 15:29 (Ref:2021818)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatters

Yes, SETON managed a podium finish. SETON, the same one who is past his game and will no longer be on the pace...?

IMO Seto isn't past his game, just has hardly any seat time and the last minute shuffle at HRT for Sandown would be enough to unstable any team and drivers, i think he will do better at Bathurst, but if he drove CC or Fujitsu series, he would be much quicker, experience something Seto has tons of is no substitute for seat time though.

Uncle Cranker · 7 Oct 2007, 22:47 (Ref:2034447)

With both cars suffering from a lack of stopping power, perhaps an '06 pairing across the two Walkinshoddy teams might have proved more successful.

Oh hang, on the Skaife car was a beached, broken, smoking wreck as well......

Either way, team nice guy are now 1 & 2 in the championship, and sooky boy Rick isn't.

deeks6 · 8 Oct 2007, 00:36 (Ref:2034502)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

With both cars suffering from a lack of stopping power, perhaps an '06 pairing across the two Walkinshoddy teams might have proved more successful.

Oh hang, on the Skaife car was a beached, broken, smoking wreck as well......

Either way, team nice guy are now 1 & 2 in the championship, and sooky boy Rick isn't.

Uncle ... please stop making my posts for me !!!

Seriously, I cried when I saw all the trouble Walkinshoddys were in - with LAUGHTER. They got exactly what they deserved and lets hope they get more of the same when they return to the scene of the crime.

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