[LM24] 2008 Le Mans Trap Speeds

[sssssssss]

Just in case someone will find out...

[AU N EGL]

Sam already published them.

Darn quick too.

"How fast, how long and who's quickest. We take a look at the performance of the cars in detail (and find out that the ACO figures are wrong!)"

Racecar Engineering / Speed TV.com trap speeds
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ner-times.html

[ss_collins]

full times and splits I'm churning through at the moment.
More to come

[dj choc ice]

jesus!!!

the peugeot is ridiculously quick through the porsche curves, not surprised by how fast the 908's are down the straights though, intriguing though how slow the pescarolo's are down the straights, seem the pesca's are quite draggy which surprises me somewhat.

[I love 04s]

Looking at those times its a real shame the Zytek 07S LMP1 car was not there........its very similar to the P2 car through the corners but considerably faster in a straight line....it could have been very very quick in the right hands.

Perhaps we will see it accross the pond at the end of this year tho hopefully.

[ss_collins]

More detail up now not sure what to do re the ACO trap speeds I know they are wring so don't want to put them up but I don't have times on every car

[AU N EGL]

Thanks Sam

[Aysedasi]

A lot of the info the ACO has posted is incorrect. If you look through some of the qualifying times you'll see errors.

[GTfour]

According to french magazine "Auto Hebdo" and their hour to hour race report,the Dome was unofficially clocked at 358 km/h on the Saturdayevening at 20:29.....



That would make it even faster then the lowdrag Toyota GT-One,which was clocked at 351...

Allthough the article doesn't state a sourch for their info.

[ss_collins]

Re 358kph - its not true. The ACO site reported the same - I clocked a silly speed for a GT2 Ferrari, but anyone with half a brain could see the time was wrong!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Re 358kph - its not true. The ACO site reported the same - I clocked a silly speed for a GT2 Ferrari, but anyone with half a brain could see the time was wrong!

I agree with Sam here. Some times no matter what the data says once in a while you have too look at the data, scratch your head and say, "Wait a minute here, somthing is not right,"

[JAG]

Originally Posted by GTfour

According to french magazine "Auto Hebdo" and their hour to hour race report,the Dome was unofficially clocked at 358 km/h on the Saturdayevening at 20:29.....



That would make it even faster then the lowdrag Toyota GT-One,which was clocked at 351...

Allthough the article doesn't state a sourch for their info.

I'm not sure how relevant all this is, the '99 'GT1/LMGTP' cars were all extremely quick down the straights, but in qualifying they ran 3.30 laps, and 3.40 race laps (on average).

The 908 ran 3.18 qualifying laps and 3.20 diring the race.

[GTfour]

O.K.,but just not agreeing with the numbers "because they're sounding silly" isn't good enough for me. Hard evidence is what I wanna see.
Untill then,the number stands for me. Also,I wouldn't be surprised by a high Vmax for the Dome. First of,they've allways shown high straightline speeds,then,their slick aeropackage and the way they followed the diesels and Lola/Aston in the opening hour of the race to me makes it even more feasable.

Oh,and ofcourse I just want it to be true.

Le Mans cars should achieve higher topspeeds then Bernie's jetset toys imho.

[GTfour]

Originally Posted by JAG

I'm not sure how relevant all this is, the '99 'GT1/LMGTP' cars were all extremely quick down the straights, but in qualifying they ran 3.30 laps, and 3.40 race laps (on average).

The 908 ran 3.18 qualifying laps and 3.20 diring the race.

As stated in my previous post,I detest F1 like sportscars and to me,LMP's are ever more and more going into that direction.
In my opinion,sportscars are more about formidable accelaration,high speeds and extreme braking. Not about achieving higher and higher corneringspeeds by more and more downforce...

[JAG]

Originally Posted by GTfour

As stated in my previous post,I detest F1 like sportscars and to me,LMP's are ever more and more going into that direction.
In my opinion,sportscars are more about formidable accelaration,high speeds and extreme braking. Not about achieving higher and higher corneringspeeds by more and more downforce...

I don't see it like that, put a traditional nose on the 908 and it maybe a couple of seconds a lap slower, put it won't make that much difference.

I've always prefared 3.5l cars over tradtional Group C cars, to me, top speeds have always been secondary to lap times.

[GTfour]

So many tastes,so many colours...

[sssssssss]

Yup, these were available even before the race started. Now the idea with them (http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...ner-times.html ) is that, if 358 km/h sounds indeed a bit too much for the Dome, well, these ones seem a bit low to me : I mean, they're clearly true, but they might not be exactly the very fastest of the entire 2008 LM edition.
The reason for me saying this is the fact that the Audi R10 is clocked here only at 335 km/h in qualifying pace, which is slower than last year (339 km/h in the race). And the R10 was clearly faster this year than in 2007 (they did 3:23s and also had faster times on the first sector than last year - which suggests higher top speeds, or at least similar top speeds before braking for the first Mulsanne Chicane). That's why I actually started the thread.
In any case, until the next updates, we have 342 km/h for the Peugeot 908 as the highest speed in 2008.
Prolly redundant observation: it's the same top speed as the BMW V12 LMR's in 1999

[sssssssss]

And also... the last time times like these were achieved at Le Mans (in the region of 3:20 with the chicanes on the Mulsanne Straight) top speeds were over 350 km/h for the fastest cars (354 km/h for the 905 in 1993, 351 km/h in 1992).

[sssssssss]

In addition, let's remember that the warmup top speeds were higher than that. The Peugeots did 345 km/h in warmup and the Audi R10 (still?) 336 km/h down the first section of the Mulsanne Straight.
So it's not 342 km/h the highest we know about so far, it's 345 km/h for the Peugeot 908 HDI, until further updates on the topic

[ss_collins]

O.K.,but just not agreeing with the numbers "because they're sounding silly" isn't good enough for me. Hard evidence is what I wanna see.
Untill then,the number stands for me. Also,I wouldn't be surprised by a high Vmax for the Dome. First of,they've allways shown high straightline speeds,then,their slick aeropackage and the way they followed the diesels and Lola/Aston in the opening hour of the race to me makes it even more feasable.

During the race the ACO trap peak speed was 335kph, this I believe to be too low. However the ACO trap speeds are known to be wrong so should be discounted. After Q1 a set of trap speeds was issued by the ACO - with the 908 peaking at 345kph, which is about right. But these were quickly scrubbed and a new set of times were issued with no cars faster than 335kph. These are wrong. From there on in the ACO traps recorded no speed higher than 335kph.

The Dome my have concievably gained 5kph but 358kph is simply not on without a major change in lap times (or sector times). I have asked the guys in Japan to check thier data for that period to put this story to bed.

Our times are not 100% as we did not get speeds on every car, but we did get accurate times. Though these were not always the cars fastest laps so each car stated has had at least 5 traps recorded in 1 session to be stated so we can avoid wierd results. This not only gives a clear rsult but also gives you a ball park of what the car is capable of. The Dome was poor in corners due to a TC issue that will not be solved until next month, and that hurts straight line performance.

In addition, let's remember that the warmup top speeds were higher than that. The Peugeots did 345 km/h in warmup and the Audi R10 (still?) 336 km/h down the first section of the Mulsanne Straight.
So it's not 342 km/h the highest we know about so far, it's 345 km/h for the Peugeot 908 HDI, until further updates on the topic

Again disregard the ACO times they are clearly all over the place. We have good reliable traps verified by team data.

[GTfour]

The ACO has been shady with the real Vmax's for the last years. There was even a period were they stated not to bring out the trapspeeds anymore!

Le Mans is all about high terminal velocities and should be less about F1 like downforce and corneringspeeds imho.

Does anyone know where this stated 358km/h for the Dome originated from?

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

During the race the ACO trap peak speed was 335kph, this I believe to be too low. However the ACO trap speeds are known to be wrong so should be discounted. After Q1 a set of trap speeds was issued by the ACO - with the 908 peaking at 345kph, which is about right. But these were quickly scrubbed and a new set of times were issued with no cars faster than 335kph. These are wrong. From there on in the ACO traps recorded no speed higher than 335kph.
snip

Again disregard the ACO times they are clearly all over the place. We have good reliable traps verified by team data.

The ACO has an agenda. If a French car goes FASTER then what th ACO wants, is the ACO going to put restriction on that French team> Nooo change the rule or change the times so it looks like ath French car as slower.

and making a slower car, but a car from a country that the ACO is courting for a new series apprear faster ? Noo what the ACO do that?

Remember the ACO does things "in the spirit" of the rules, when that spirit favors the a particular team.

many of us have been on here a long time to realize that racing is more more then between the Green and Checkered Flags

Indpendent speed testing, as Sam has done would be more approprate.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Does anyone know where this stated 358km/h for the Dome originated from?

From lemans.org

http://translate.google.com/translat...F8&sl=fr&tl=en

[sssssssss]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

Again disregard the ACO times they are clearly all over the place. We have good reliable traps verified by team data.

These ones looked quite close to what was to be expected: 345 km/h by the Peugeot, 343 km/h by the Courage (given that they had Judd engines and cars with Judd engines always have high top speeds), 342 km/h by the Pescarolo (well, this one is a bit weird to me), 338 km/h for Epsilon, 337 km/h for the Aston Martin Lola and 336 km/h for Audi and Dome... However if you say they're wrong, they just might beThe Pesca one is bizzare.

I can't really understand what happened to the ACO this year that they're so all over the place with the speeds... I mean, how hard is it to watch the radar and then put the number on paper?

In any case, thanks Sam for the data so far and the updates! So as far as we know based on reliable data, the highest was still 342 km/h by the Peugeot and 336 km/h by the Audi?

[ss_collins]

I wouldn't be suprised if the Pug and Audi went a little quicker (possibly as much as 5kph) in later sessions but those are the bst verified times available. Next year I'm stationing a chap there for all four sessions and test day...