[Driver] Schumacher used driving aids - Verstappen

[Marbot]

Verstappen doubts that he had equal machinery to Schumacher during his time at Benetton.

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/2...ds-verstappen/

[Bononi]

Oh JV, only you didn't know that.

[henners88]

To be honest we've known this for years and its hardly new news. Thanks for sharing the article though.

[NewYankee01]

but its a good article at that and someone with real authority, obviously.

we all know about his unfair mechanical advantages in the early 90s, this shows all the drivers, teams and the public who complained were very much right and not making assumptions.

no wonder he's not the same standard we all seemed he was now in 2011...even if he's 40+

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Oh JV, only you didn't know that.

Seems so.

[Born Racer]

There have been some seriously questionable morals in that Benetton/Renault team over the years.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

There have been some seriously questionable morals in that Benetton/Renault team over the years.

Yes, I wonder if that's why they've had so many name changes?

[chillibowl]

looking 20 years down the road i wonder if we will be reading 'there is no way Vettel was 1 second faster than me in the same car' stories.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yes, I wonder if that's why they've had so many name changes?

In the latest case, the Piquet thing embarrassed Renault I think, but ultimately they got out because Red Bull were doing better than them and they felt they were getting reasonable publicity from their success there. I think Mercedes may do similar eventually if they keep getting beaten by McLaren with their engines, whatever they say.

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

looking 20 years down the road i wonder if we will be reading 'there is no way Vettel was 1 second faster than me in the same car' stories.

Especially as he had a moving(i.e. flexing) front wing compared to Webber's car!

There have been many musing on the Benetton's driving aids in 1994. You only have to look at recent Senna film and it mentions it as well. There did seem to be a traction control like sound in the corners on Schumi's car. We will never know for 100%, but the suspicion largely remains.

[paddy]

Originally Posted by stripedcat

Especially as he had a moving(i.e. flexing) front wing compared to Webber's car!

There have been many musing on the Benetton's driving aids in 1994. You only have to look at recent Senna film and it mentions it as well. There did seem to be a traction control like sound in the corners on Schumi's car. We will never know for 100%, but the suspicion largely remains.

It's important to remember that Senna was killed trying to stay in front of Schumacher. If it's true that Benetton were cheating then that looks very bad. It won't change my opinion of Schumacher because I don't rate him that highly anyway.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by paddy

It's important to remember that Senna was killed trying to stay in front of Schumacher. If it's true that Benetton were cheating then that looks very bad. It won't change my opinion of Schumacher because I don't rate him that highly anyway.

It's very bad since then, and Briatore is on top of it. TGF also.

[McArthur252]

Sounds like the ramblings of quite a bitter man to me.

Love him or hate him he's still 7x World Champion, won 91 GP's and one of the greatest drivers the sports ever seen. And at 42, still f*****g quick.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by McArthur252

Love him or hate him he's still 7x World Champion, won 91 GP's and one of the greatest drivers the sports ever seen. And at 42, still f*****g quick.

Never doubted that for one second, but still a bad character.

[strider]

I can't remember how much of this was in the Senna film and how much I've read elsewhere, but Senna was eliminated from the second 1994 race by a first lap collision with Mika and had to walk back to the pits. When he returned he said the engine note of Schumacher's car was different from all the others under acceleration and he was convinced the car had traction control. He asked Frank Williams to protest, but he declined, which, with hindsight, may have been a tragic mistake.

Later in the season it found by the FIA that the Benetton did indeed have traction control. There was a menu of various options numbered from 1 to 10, but if the driver happened to select 13, he had traction control available.

This must have been a pre-race, as opposed to post-race check, because the FIA took no action on the grounds that although the option was undoubtedly there they couldn't prove that it had been used.

It was also around this time that Alan Prudhom was recruited from Liverpool Data Associates to be the FIA's Software Consultant.

Oh, and JJ Lehto also said what Verstappen has claimed, so it's nothing new.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by strider

Oh, and JJ Lehto also said what Verstappen has claimed, so it's nothing new.

Johnny Herbert also had his suspicions about what was going on over at the other side of the garage.

[mountainstar]

Well I never thought schumacher earned his 94 championship solely on the basis that in order to win it he drove right into Hill at Adelaide.

I believe all the intact B194's ended up in private hands and one owner found the option 13 and apparently it worked.

I think that year left a big black mark over Schumacher as a driver, much the same way Senna had one driving Prost off the road in 1990.

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by strider

I can't remember how much of this was in the Senna film and how much I've read elsewhere, but Senna was eliminated from the second 1994 race by a first lap collision with Mika and had to walk back to the pits. When he returned he said the engine note of Schumacher's car was different from all the others under acceleration and he was convinced the car had traction control. He asked Frank Williams to protest, but he declined, which, with hindsight, may have been a tragic mistake.

.

If I recall Mansell drew the same conclusion in 1994 after the French GP when Schumacher jumped both him and Hill of the start with ease. Its sad to consider it just may have forced Senna into the crash but also that no serious penalty was applied to Schumacher/Bennetton.

The only part that does not stack up is why they ran the system in only 1 car?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by strider

This must have been a pre-race, as opposed to post-race check, because the FIA took no action on the grounds that although the option was undoubtedly there they couldn't prove that it had been used.

It was also around this time that Alan Prudhom was recruited from Liverpool Data Associates to be the FIA's Software Consultant.

Oh, and JJ Lehto also said what Verstappen has claimed, so it's nothing new.

Yes, JJ also once famously said 'there's no way i'm 3 seconds a lap slower than anyone'

Think it was after qualifying in Montreal where the team was still blabbering on about him not being fit enough to race, yet only a few weeks earlier he had qualified about 5th in Spain and would have had a podium easily if not for a strange retirement.

I'm not saying JJ was completely fit and he was certainly scarred after the Imola events and his own testing shunt which he was nearly recovered from, but there were also such strong notions that the B194 in passive spec was little more than a top 10 car and certainly not a race winning chassis. The cars form/behaviour when Schu was out of it in the Monza and Estoril races seems to bear this out as both cars were quite evenly matched but struggling to break into the top 10. JJ absolutely drove his balls off at Monza but for naff all reward. Was such a shame.

Jos was also similarly 'struggling' and Impey whilst closer also struggled with the car at the end of the season, yet had absolutely flown with it in testing...

Such a shame that a few guys careers were wrecked through all of this cover up.

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by McArthur252

.....Love him or hate him he's still 7x World Champion, won 91 GP's and one of the greatest drivers the sports ever seen. And at 42, still f*****g quick.

in addition to which he's a cheat, and a dirty cheat at that. I heard he won't have any mirrors in his house?

[Pingguest]

Jos Verstappen gave an interview to a Dutch magazine. As a sort of preview the following, original article published and taken over by other, also non-Dutch media. For those able to read Dutch, here is the original article: http://www.nu.nl/sport/2687193/schum...pmiddelen.html

To me the story doesn't sound very credible. According to Verstappen only Schumacher's car was fitted with a secretive and illegal driver aid. If true, I wonder why Benetton only allowed Schumacher to use it?

During the 1994 season Benetton was accused of using an illegal traction control system. But Verstappen speaks about a system that enabled Schumacher to go significantly faster through corners: "Ik dacht steeds: dit kan gewoon niet! Ik rem op de limiet en ga zo hard mogelijk de bocht in. Wat moet ik nog meer doen? Bij Schumacher lukte het wel en bij mij niet. Dat klopte niet."[1] In this context it looks as though Schumacher could brake later. In other words: no traction control was used, as such a system does not enable drivers to brake later. But what driver aid was used then?

[1] In the article posted by Marbot translated as: "People think I'm looking for an excuse when I say this, but I just know that his car was different compared to my car that year. I kept thinking that this cannot be done! I would brake on the limit and go as hard as I could into every corner. So what could I do when Schumacher was able to do that and not me? It just wasn’t right."

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

The only part that does not stack up is why they ran the system in only 1 car?

Originally Posted by Pingguest

If true, I wonder why Benetton only allowed Schumacher to use it?

maybe they realized that JoV couldn't keep a secret?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

In other words: no traction control was used, as such a system does not enable drivers to brake later. But what driver aid was used then?

[1] In the article posted by Marbot translated as: "People think I'm looking for an excuse when I say this, but I just know that his car was different compared to my car that year. I kept thinking that this cannot be done! I would brake on the limit and go as hard as I could into every corner. So what could I do when Schumacher was able to do that and not me? It just wasn’t right."

good spot there!

what exactly is he talking about then?

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

good spot there!

what exactly is he talking about then?

Anti lock brakes ????

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

To me the story doesn't sound very credible. According to Verstappen only Schumacher's car was fitted with a secretive and illegal driver aid. If true, I wonder why Benetton only allowed Schumacher to use it?

Mainly because Bernie was pushing the new wunderkind thing and he was frightened that Senna was going to win the title by half season?

Ironically something Schue almost did himself several years later.

I'm only half joking with this no matter hoiw daft it seems....