thebear's archive of motorsports trivia

[Vitesse]

Or the one at Riverside in 1958? Of course, that was for sports cars ...

[Don Capps]

Originally posted by Vitesse
You don't count that thing they ran beteween 1908 and 1916 then? "American Grand Prize" they called it ...

.... Savannah, Milwaukee, Santa Monica and San Francisco.

Or the one at Riverside in 1958? Of course, that was for sports cars ...

Wading into muddied waters is always an adventure and few waters seem to be more muddied than those surrounding much of the American racing scene and its history.

The ACA Gold Cup or Grand Prize events were last run in 1916 at Santa Monica. During the Winter of 1916/1917 Willie Vanderbilt let the Motor Cups Commission that he was withdrawing the Vanderbilt Cup from competition for the time being, war or no war. The ACA followed by suspending the Grand Prize event for the duration of the war, but plans to revive the event never got past the discussion stages in the aftermath of the Great War. So, both the Gold Cup and the WK Vanderbilt Jr Cup passed into history as they say.

Alec Ulmann for his own reasons and with malice aforethought dubbed the 1958 Riverside race as the "I United States Grand Prix" or the "I United States Grand Prix for Sports Cars" -- both were used in race literature and the latter was the most common useage inn the material prepared by the promoter himself, Ulmann.

When Ulmann did this, he was one of several promoters vying for a potential American round in the CSI's World Championship for Drivers that the ACCUS was angling for with the CSI. The major competition was the Watkins Glen Grand Prix Corporation which Cameron Argetsinger head up. Both held rounds in the inaugural USAC Road Racing Championship in 1958, but Ulmann was clever enough to incorporate into the name of the Riverside event what was his real target -- the "United States Grand Prix".

Based upon the success of the 1958 Riverside event, Ulmann got the support within the ACCUS to get the nod for the final event of the CSI WCD calendar for 1959, which Ulmann held at his track at Sebring. Ulman dubbed the Sebring event the "II United States Grand Prix" and the ACCUS gave him the appropriate head nod and so it kept the "II" in the race title. The 1959 race at Sebring was a financial disaster and the same with the running of the "III USGP" at Riverside in 1960.

In 1961, Ulmann had the right from the ACCUS to promote the "IV USGP". However, the financial problems in the form of the many outstanding debts, unpaid teams, and general disgruntlement led the ACCUS to put some pressure on Ulmann to either make good the debts or else. Ulmann held on the rights to promote the USGP until August. Watkins Glen already had a spot on the International CSI calendar for its October libre race.

After Ulmann relingusihed the right to the race, the ACCUS put it up for bid and Watkins Glen got the race and scrambled to host the event on the first weekend in October as the "IV USGP".

As for the Grand Prize lineage not being taken up, there is not much on the record at the time as to why that was not done, but piecing things together it becomes apparent that it was probably an option that was noever seriously considered.

The Long Beach, Las Vegas, Detroit, and Dallas events were all "City" races each one being the "Grand Prix of the City". The second Long Beach GP, 1976, is a bit of a muddied and muddled race since it was assumed to be the "I USGP west" when the 1977 race was the "III Grand Prix of Long Beach". However, I have come to the conclusion that most seem content to ignore such untidy tidbits and call it whatever the hell they want to call it. The "I Grand Prix of Long Beach" in 1975 was for F5000 cars so those being unworthy in the eyes of the F1 crowd this event is generally ignored as is the minor problem that Long Beach never hosted a USGP.

Nor do we even wish to bring up the USGPs held at The Meadowlands in 1984 and 1985....

[djb]

cough cough anorak anorak

cough cough

(just kidding)

[eclectic]

Good stuff Bear, thanks.

[thebear]

July, 1935

John Cobb drives his 24L W-12 Napier engined Railton to 20 world records at the Bonneville Salt Flats. His 24hr average speed was 134.85mph. A subsequent Railton with TWO 1250hp Napier engines was developed in 1939. One engine drove the front wheels and the other the rears. 0-100mph took 10 seconds and the upshift to second gear was at 150mph. The upshift to third gear (top) was at 250mph. He broke George Eyston's existing record and achieved a two way average of 369.7mph.

[D-Type]

Being picky,

July 1935 must be the date for the long distance records set with the Napier Railton. (does anybody know of a website covering these longer distance records?)

The twin-engined car, later known as the Railton Mobil special (yes, sponsorship 50+ years ago!) set the following Land Speed Records:
15 September 1938 - 350.20 mph
23 August 1939 - 369.70 mph
16 September 1947 - 394. 20 mph

Then came Loch Ness on 29 September 1952 ....

[thebear]

Tony Brooks 1955 Connaught victory in the Syracuse GP (Italy) non championship race was the first `Grand Prix’ win by a British driver since 1924.

[cavvy]

A congratulatory word for thebear : love your work.

However as an education expert** can I advise I will be taking a professorial posting as soon as I work out what day it is.

[D-Type]

Originally posted by thebear


Tony Brooks 1955 Connaught victory in the Syracuse GP (Italy) non championship race was the first `Grand Prix’ win by a British driver since 1924.

Sorry to be picky (again):

British driver in a British car

[JimW]

Originally posted by thebear
Thanks, friends. I really have no way of knowing how many subscribers there are to this thread.

As of today, "33 subscribers and 1324 views" to quote the "New posts" listing.

Fascinating stuff (mostly ).

Regards.

Jim

[thebear]

Zora Arkus-Duntov raced a type J2R Allard for Sidney Allard in the 1953 Le Mans 24hr race. The car retired after 65 laps when its Cadillac engine expired.

[thebear]

The 1922 type 30 Bugatti had a straight eight (I-8) engine with three valves per cylinder, operated by a single overhead camshaft. There were two small intake valves and one large exhaust valve. This is and was contrary to accepted priciples.

[thebear]

When the revised UK Motor Vehicle (Construction and Use) Regulations came into force in November, 1963 it became illegal to carry passengers on the roof of a motor vehicle.

[thebear]

Passenger car seat belts first appeared as original equipment as an (unpopular) option from Ford Motor Company for the 1956 model year. Volvo is credited with the development of today's three point shoulder belt in 1959.

[thebear]

anta: anta: anta: anta:

20 DEC 1892: Alexander brown and George Stillman of Syracuse New York receive a patent for an inflateable automobile tire.

now: now: now: now:

[thebear]

On Dec. 14 2002 the ship Tricolor sank -- in a thick, English Channel fog. No big deal you say. Unless you were waiting for one of the Volvos. SAABs or BMWs on board.

The ship was carrying nearly 3,000 U.S-bound Saabs, BMWs and Volvos - including 358 XC90s. U.S. dealers have accepted deposits for about 9,000 XC90s but so far had delivered only 290 in October and 881 in November. At that rate, 358 vehicles represents about two weeks worth of sales, when the waiting list is already months long.

At full production, the company expects U.S. sales of about 3,000 XC90s a month. That would make the XC90 Volvo's biggest seller in the United States. Volvo lost 2,020 U.S.-bound vehicles - about 70 percent of the ship's cargo - including 637 S60 sedans.

The automakers said they are insured against the financial loss. But U.S. dealers are scrambling to find dealer trades to satisfy customers who already may have been waiting weeks for their cars.

There were also a handful of "European delivery" cars on the Tricolor - for instance, a half-dozen Volvos. Those are a special case because each customer paid for the car, put some miles on it in Europe and shipped it home as a used car to save customs duties. Dealers and factory spokesmen last week were unsure how those were insured or what will be done for those customers.

Besides the lost Volvos, about 500 Saabs also sank. Saab Cars USA Inc. said 480 of them were 9-3s and the rest 9-5s. The company sold 1,536 9-3s in the United States in September 2002.

BMW said it lost about 335 cars - a mix of 3-, 5- and 7-series models. There were no X5 sport wagons or Z4 sports cars aboard because they are built in South Carolina. Minis, built in Great Britain, were not on the ship.

You just thought you had troubles.

[hyphen]

Originally Posted by D-Type

And 1953 - a Tatra T-600 wins its class in the inaugural Coronation Safari

more on this car @ http://www.tatraplan.co.uk/

_h

[thebear]

Daytona Beach Florida, 100 years ago (JAN 1904):

William K. Vanderbilt drives a four cylinder 11.9 liter engined Mercedes-Benz on the sandy beach at 92.308mph and establishes the first (?) world land speed record. The (?) is because I have other material about activities in France at about the same time that may contradict "the first" part. To be continued . . . . . . .

[thebear]

Feb.15, 1913:

Percy Lambert laps the Brooklands (UK) racetrack in a Talbot at a world's record speed of 103.76mph. He is the first person to cover 100 miles in 60 minutes. The car is a basic `25hp' chassis with only slight modifications as streamlining had not yet been `invented'. The record was short lived but the cars used to break it were specifically designed for the job with engines three time the size of the Talbot's 4.7L unit.

[thebear]

Daytona 500 lore:

Since the very first running in 1959 only three winning drivers were able to repeat the win the following year.

Richard Petty was the first in 1973 & 1974 (among his total of seven wins).

Cale Yarborough in 1983 & 1984

Sterling marlin in 1994 & 1995

Can Dale Jr. win again this year and add to the list?

No driver has ever won three successive times.

[thebear]

How NASCAR became NA$CAR:

The first NASCAR champion was Red Byron. In 1949 his championship award was $5,800 (~£2,000 at the time).

The 2004 NA$CAR champion, Kurt Busch's award was $5,356,181 (~£2,838,776).

The 2005 running of the Daytona 500 will have a total purse for one race of more than $17,000,000 (~£9,000,000)

The winner of the 2005 race will collect at least $1,430,030 (~£757,916)

The last place finisher in 2005 will collect at least $219,931 (~£116,560)

[Darren Galpin]

You are not comparing like with like, as it hasn't taken into account inflation. Assuming 3% inflation, the 1949 award was $29,476 in 2004 US Dollars. Assuming 7% inflation makes it $239,627 (or the other way, Busch's pay at 7% inflation was $129,642 in 1949 US Dollars). I don't know what the true inflation figure is.

You can never directly compare prices across the age, as the cost of everything rises over time. After all, for $5800 you could have purchased a full fighting frigate in the reign of Elizabeth I!

[thebear]

Contrary to anecdotal evidence the "Intermittent Winshield Wiper" was not a product of the Lucas Company. Wayne State University (Michigan) Profesor Robert Kearns received several US patents for the device(s) in 1967.

He brought suit against Ford Motor Company (1978) and Chrysler Corporation (1982) and was awarded several million dollars in each case.

On 09 FEB 2005 he succumbed to Cancer at his home in Baltimore Maryland.

[thebear]

March Trivia:

1892 - March 28, Charles Durea and Erwin Markham sign a contract to design and finance the construction of a gasoline powered automobile.

1936 - March 08, Daytona Beach Florida staged it's first race strictly for stock cars on a combination beach and public roadway course.

1952 - March 12, Mercedes-Benz introduces the 300SL to the press.

1964 - March 10, the first Ford Mustang was produced.

[Darren Galpin]

Do stock chassis count as stock cars? If so, there was a race at Daytona Beach on the 3rd March 1908.