ASCAR's new home

[Stack]

They have moved in with the VSR Super Silhouette Series.

Details....http://www.v8trophy.com/2008meetings.shtml

Dates.... 30 March - Snetterton, 12 Apr - Cadwell, 31 May - LyddenHill
15 Jun - Brands Hatch, 26/27 Jul - Croix en Tournois, 25 Aug - Snetterton
06/07 Sep - Pembrey, 28 Sep - Mallory, 25/26 Oct - Brands Hatch
01/02 Nov - Snetterton

[Dan Friel]

Always destined for failure.. but a few ASCARs around Cadwell could be entertaining.

I think the topic may be in the wrong forum??

[johntt]

Why no ovals? - they could run with VSR and havea few seperate oval events a year at Rockingham and Warneton.

[Minicross424]

Well im not too sure what to make of this.
My understanding is that at least 6 of the super sillouettes have agreed to race with another club in a new class.
I will watch its progress but i have conserns.
Rob 59 got something to say about this?

[gttouring]

you know whats funny is nascar tubeframe silhouette cars were progressions from the stock cars, the 'frame rails' were actual car parts until not so long ago
these thing evolved in the US in front of everyone- why it would be percieved this would take off anywhere else is a mystery.
Speed car, ASCAR, now this?
whay not start from scratch and do it more akin to V8supercars, and throw in a few ovals and progress from there... V8 stars could be used for this...
but i guess this is just one more series-
i know there is machinery around, but another one? why not make a GTX class for these and use them in other saloon series?

[ss_collins]

these thing evolved in the US in front of everyone- why it would be percieved this would take off anywhere else is a mystery.
Speed car, ASCAR, now this?

I disagree - there are a lot of people over here who love late model racing - just look at all the brits who post in this bit of TT. But ASCAR was flawed from day 1, and now its just having a slow death.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

I disagree - there are a lot of people over here who love late model racing - just look at all the brits who post in this bit of TT. But ASCAR was flawed from day 1, and now its just having a slow death.

What went wrong with ASCAR then? I always thought it was a lack of British interest in stock car racing.

We have the grassroots with BRISCA and Legends but haven't been able to develop it further.

[ss_collins]

Err well Stock car racing has always been popular over here, just look at the crowds at the National Hot Rod World Final, or the Thunder 500... or best in Britain... etc..

ASCAR failed because of poor management, a poor concept (why use ASA cars??) and horrific overcharging. Not a lack of interest, but the aforementioned caused small grids. I remember the first ASCAR race I went to, it was really dull because on a track like rockingham you need pack racing - but there were not enough cars for that and they were just spread out. But the Pickups were brilliant, there were more people in the stands to watch the pickups than there were for the big cars.

[R59]

Actually ol' chap, there were more people there to watch 6 V8's than there were to watch the Pickups. A poll carried out by one of the guys from Short Circuit magazine found that most people went to watch the V8's. The pickups were a bonus because of their close pack racing - but the noise of the V8's was the draw. If the crowd went there just for the pickups, why didn't they go to the other circuits to watch them?

Why no ovals in the series this year - ask the people who have been hell bent on destroying the series from behind the scenes. At the Motorfest last year, there was much talk from the circuit management of the ASCAR's being part of the package for 2008. WIth the grid "revival" at that meeting, there was new hope for it. Changing tyre manufacturer back to Hoosier from Avon also helped win back some old drivers who hated the radials. Then, all of a sudden, they don't 'want' the V8's on the circuit. No reason given.

We were going to have a round at Silverstone, until they heard that we'd teamed up with the VSR's, then they said we were too noisy and wouldn't be welcome. What? We've got to be sub 105dB for every other circuit, so why not Silverstone?

And the SuperSilhouettes are the one's that have run away from the VSR series. They fell out of bed with it when John Clarke re-introduced the V8's and V6's (Eurocars) to the series, in an effort to revive it.

The goal is to create a series that can run at least 4 races per meeting (splitting the grid between the V8's and the V6's/2L cars perhaps).

The ASCAR's (and probably the V8 Eurocars) will run with restrictors to drop the power to circa 400bhp so we can run on a National B MSA permit. That should open the door to far more prospective competitors.

Rob.

[Rod Birley]

Croix should be interesting, there is a really tight series of hairpins there.
Rob, how many drivers will get their cars converted to run on road circuits and what is the likely cost going to be?

[R59]

Most of us are converting to road course use. There are a few who are not over interested in doing road courses, but they may well convert their cars and offer the seats out for hire.

Colin White is running two (at least), and has two more for hire or sale
Revolution Racing are running four,
John Steward is running two (unlikely that John will drive on road courses)
Shane Brereton has committed to one, but still hopes to get his second car out at some time.
Team Networking/Torquespeed are allegedly to run two (Duncan Gray plus A.N.Other)
Carl Boardley is undecided, but is making more interested noises than he was before.
Pete Wilkinson's car is being sold, and the new owner will be out.
Me of course.
The word is that Steve Hobday is coming back out with his car, and two other former series runners are seriously considering a return.

West Tec have 10 cars-ish (Mr Miller will confirm!) of which at least 5 are complete. Plus spares. All for sale, or no doubt hire to someone with a decent budget.

Cost wise, most of us have straight axle tubes "in stock" from the last time they ran the cars on Hoosiers. The front ends change over easily, the left front upright has two positions for the joint, and it's a case of unbolting from one, to the other, then adjusting.

Then it's shocks & springs, wipers, brake lights, rain lights, and demisters.

I reckon you should be able to buy a car, do the mods, and be on-track for circa £10K for one of the cheaper cars up for grabs, or under £20K for one of the "near new" cars that are out there.

A quick note - our last two rounds are MSVR events, not BRSCC. The VSR's were invited to be part of those meetings. Seems that JP is our friend!

Rob.

[chunder]

Was always a tough one to sort out I think, it didnt help with Lauszitz not running anymore, kinda lost impetus after that. But they shouldnt have let teams like RML come in and spend too much on it.

For me the Rock is the wrong sort of track for these cars, even thirty of them would still spread out, a shorter track with more banking would have been more preferable surely?

And by the way Stock car racing is popular over here but what people call on here stock cars racing is actuallt Hot Rod racing which as falling way behind these days, crowds are falling and grids are not what they were, they pack out one or two big events but thats it.

Shame about Rockingham, we dont really dig that kind of oval racing over here, never will, perhaps they should just kill the place before it gets embarassing.

And MSA voal racing can work, remember V6 Eurocar, all that killed that was few idiots wanting faster cars!

And gotta be honest I wouldnt take anythging from SC magazine they have about 5 readers! most of my mates went to watch the pickups and see sPeaky!!

[kelvin88]

but the noise of the V8's was the draw. If the crowd went there just for the pickups, why didn't they go to the other circuits to watch them?

I think I am going to be reminding you of that comment later in the season, Rob...

[gerritvdh]

The biggest problem getting Late model stockcar racing from the ground is.
The builders and promotors behind Rockingham and Lauzits wanted to start where Nascar is now in the states BIG BIG money.
That is not working as whe know.
They forgotten that it costs Nascar years and years to come to this level.
So you have to start at a lower level.
What you need is a 1/2 mile and 1/4 mile track at Rockingham Lauzits
Venray Warneton is 1/4 mile already.
Use low cost cars like the Camso V8 30000,- euro and low running cost
they are cheaper than Nat Hotrod F1 and F2.
Than you get enough drivers and sponsors to run these series

[CAMSOgirl]

He is right you know! Welcome to Ten-Tenths, Gerritvdh!

[R59]

I agree with most of that Gerrit.

I think the circuit has to be closer to 1 mile than 1/4 mile - we have enough of those in the UK already.

My thought about Rockingham is that it should have been built as two ovals in one. A proper Superspeedway of 2.2miles, with big banking, aka Daytona, with a "internal" oval of circa 1mile which uses the front stretch to use the same pitlane..

Rockingham could still make a shorter oval by continuing turn 1 around a bit more, and linking across to turn 4. It would be just under 1 mile, and I reckon just right.

My other ideal is a "multi-use" stadium - a 1Km (5/8 mile) oval, banked at 30degrees. Inside the oval is a basic pitlane, then a grass centre area which can be used for people who have strange urges to run around and do things.

The 1km oval is ideal as a Velodrome for the cycling types, and should find favour with the greenies. The "pitlane" could be used for the officials, etc.. for the Velodrome types.

Grandstands for about 30000 people, but add towable temporary seating for grassy sort of sports, so spectators can be a little closer to the action.

And the concrete wall around the outside - would have to be a SAFER barrier, wouldn't it!

An ideal place for it - Junction 10 of the M1 - Luton. 30 mins from London.

Any road up. A nice report in Autosport. Thank you to whoever wrote it.

Rob.

[andy97]

Well perhaps now that the ASCARS or whatever they are called are now part of a multi class racing series they could consider allowing in the recent (and now superseeded) NASCAR cars as a seperate class. There are hundereds of them in the US being sold off cheap, inc road course cars, in what was described in one US newspaper as the great NASCAR garage sale.

And Cadwell....crikey!

[R59]

It's multi-class racing for the purposes of survival. The aim is to build both parts of the new "series" into standalone championships, and that the shall form a package.

The cars that would be worth looking at are the road course cars, however, they may not be suitable for oval use, and we ARE aiming to rebuild the series back to a multi-format tour, with the goal being a number of rounds at Rockingham, something at Lausitz, and some road course races.

To make a redundant cup car UK "friendly", it would need a new motor that runs on (a) unleaded, and (b) lower octane fuel. A cup car will run on high octane leaded gasoline of circa 112 octane.

Offset chassis cars are of no use for road course events.

Most of the old cup cars (that are any good) are being snapped up by ARCA teams. The rest are being broken, or being used for PR.

There are still plenty of Howe built ASA Tour cars out there, and they come up for sale from time to time. Most of them are snapped up and get turned into road course spec, and run in the SCCA GTA series (similar to what we are doing, but with simpler rules that allow more freedom). GTA is growing dramatically to the point where in 2008, there will be a GTA National Tour with races all over the US.

And Cadwell - Bring it on!

Rob.

[gerritvdh]

Dont go bigger than a 1/2 mile track
Because the cars who are cheap to buy en race are bild fore the 1/2 mile track
Forget the super speedways fore a couple of years
If you buy a straitup chassis from lefthander with a 400/400 crate engine
you can race them on ovals and raodcourse with no problems'
Keep the cost low, thats the only way to make it works.
Then you get more people in the series

Gerrit

[kelvin88]

Hey Gerrit, good to see you on here, hope you are well.

[gerritvdh]

Just recover from the pricegiving partys

Gerrit

[ss_collins]

Rob - you are right about there being need for another track, a half miler would be good - it would indeed go well in Luton, alternative locations would be Stevenage, North Weald, Citie Europe... but frankly thats all dreaming.

We have Rockingham, Mallory, Lydden and Warneton. Those are real tracks - and I think a series for late model stock cars should take in as many of them as possible. I also think we only need one series, and two just muddies the water. Right now we have one which works and is growing and another which appears to be in its death throes...

I still can't fathom why anyone would want to race a big ol' car like that on a road course - give me an open wheeler everyday for that.

Rob how much is an SCSA (or whatever its called now) car ready to run now and how much is a rental deal?

[Rod Birley]

I am still curious as to how they will get on at Croix.

[kelvin88]

Originally Posted by Rod Birley

I am still curious as to how they will get on at Croix.

Me too, it felt like driving on a go-kart track when i went in my Cossie.

[Minicross424]

A couple of points here.
First Rob i would rather go and see a large pack of pickups racing nose to tail than 6 V8 even if they sounded like fighter jets.
But i am looking forward to seeing this new series even though i thought that most of the old V6 eurocars had been turned into superrods or broken up and the only V8 eurocar i know of is john cross and kevin clarke.
And sam is spot on about current ovals.
Lyddens oval is great and hows good were thoses camsos round there last year with a home win for kevin!
With lydden under the control of doran im sure he would be willing to develop the oval side if interest is there.