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Old 5 Oct 2017, 08:56 (Ref:3772011)   #16
tbtstt
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by chunder View Post
Oh and Msport fund the WRC programme with little help from Ford, the car is not built by Ford. They make a lot of money away from WRC, Ogiers year is funded by Red Bull and VW.

Think of it like a dealer team, Ford will provide some budget yes, but not int he same way VW or Hyundai or Citroen do for their teams, Ford officially pulled funding many years ago for WRC.

And block pretty much funded the WRX effort, yes it was Msport, but Msport is not Ford factory, just Ford rally specialists

So Msport do not really need any more money, they are doing dine without it.
I don't think the issue is the money as such, but Ogier said that he would want to see manufacturer backing in order to keep him at M-Sport in 2018.

I wonder where the three Focus RS RX will go?
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 09:01 (Ref:3772012)   #17
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Apparently Block's empire will keep them, they will be used as promo vehicles.

No doubt they might become available in a few years, but not right now. Weird cars anyway, so very softly set up, imagine they would be like Solbergs first two DS3's, pigs to drive.

Ogier is at Ford on a freebie basically, VW are paying for it as he was still under contract and Red Bull are funding much of the year, hence why Tanak is not in a Red Bull car.

If he stays then yes they need funding, and this is a factor, but I think he will probably go to Citroen, only issue there is that Loeb still wants to do the odd event and they don't get on too well so Ogier might prefer to stay at Ford. This could explain the budget situation yes, so I would think in recent days Ogier has been turned down by Citroen so Msport needed the money from the WRX programme. Fair enough, Blockw as doing nothing and Bakkerud, though quick has established himself as a barger and rammer. Nice move kid.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 11:25 (Ref:3772045)   #18
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Apparently Block's empire will keep them, they will be used as promo vehicles.
Ah yeah, that figures. From what has been said it seems like quite a chunk of Block (or Block's sponsors) cash has gone into those cars.

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No doubt they might become available in a few years, but not right now. Weird cars anyway, so very softly set up, imagine they would be like Solbergs first two DS3's, pigs to drive.
They were ridiculously soft at the start of last year and they looked awful at Lydden, especially Bakkerud: I remember watching him turning into the Elbow and being shocked at how much the car was rolling. His car looked really odd going through the chicane as well, it was almost rearing up as it reached the slight crest there.

They definitely got stiffer as last year progressed and I thought the Focus looked a lot more planted in the latter rounds. I expected them to extract more speed out of the car in the off season though, I really thought Bakkerud was going to be the man to beat in 2017.

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If he stays then yes they need funding, and this is a factor, but I think he will probably go to Citroen, only issue there is that Loeb still wants to do the odd event and they don't get on too well so Ogier might prefer to stay at Ford.
Do you think Ogier at Citroen is still likely? Given the performance of the C3 this year I think Ogier would be mad to move, especially if Ford are willing to commit the funds to retain him.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 13:24 (Ref:3772074)   #19
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I think this is quite a late decision by Msport and Hoonigan.

I would guess the resource Msport needed to run the car is likely to be going elsewhere, they runt the Bentley GT team aswell.

But I would imagine it is likely about Ogier. Though even there, Tanak has arguably been the quicker driver recently.

But he will command a large salary, probably equivalent to contributing to the WRX team as Msport do now.#~

As for Citroen, I think the fact Loeb has been sniffing around would probably mean Ogier would not be interested at all. The rumours started before Loeb started testing the car and stuff, so I would think that would put Ogier off. He would want to be the main men, the man developing the car, and at the moment the car is still loosely DS3 based and we all know who developed that!!

So, he would need firm commitments form them and maybe they could not give them.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 14:00 (Ref:3772090)   #20
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That's what I thought - maybe put the money into the WRC program as the Fiesta looks good at the moment and maybe the Ford money will pay Ogiers wage? WRC still trumps WRX for exposure so maybe better bang for buck?
I believe that Ford gets better value partnering with Ken Block to do Hoonigan / Gymkhana content than partnering with M-Sport to compete at the World Rally Championship.
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Old 5 Oct 2017, 19:58 (Ref:3772158)   #21
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tbtstt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridtbtstt should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not really rallycross related, but I see Ken Block has just unveiled his latest purchase (which it looks like he will be rallying next year)...



...like him or not, you can't deny that he buys the best toys!
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 06:59 (Ref:3772254)   #22
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Block strikes me as a man with the attention span of a 5 year old. He has had so many different projects. A Mk2, Lord knows how many Subaru's and Fords, Trevor Hopkins RS200, and now this.

He buys them I am sure with videos in mind, and this one will be in one I imagine.

An expert marketer, but not really with the results and driving ability to back it up.

Let's face it, he is a two bit stuntman!!
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 09:26 (Ref:3772268)   #23
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Block strikes me as a man with the attention span of a 5 year old. He has had so many different projects. A Mk2, Lord knows how many Subaru's and Fords, Trevor Hopkins RS200, and now this.
If I had his backing, I think I'd be collecting cars at the same rate! I assume his current association with Ford prevents him from being seen in anything else, but I understand both the gymkhana Imprezas are in his car collection. I think the the rally cars went back to Vermont Sports Cars.

The Hopkins RS200 was an odd one. Apparently the build stagnated in the UK, the car went to the US (where there were no specialists who would work on it), then it came back here when Terry Maynard bought it.

Block bought another RS200 a couple of years ago and, aside from a glimpse in the back of a video, that hasn't been seen either. That particular car was at dream spec (800+ BHP!) when it was advertised as well, so was seemingly ready to go (though I have been told since that the engine was removed before sale, so perhaps that is why that car hasn't been seen again)

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He buys them I am sure with videos in mind, and this one will be in one I imagine.
Yeah, the blurb online mentions some stage rallies and "other projects", so probably another gymkhana video.

I'd prefer to see Block out in a Fiesta R5 or similar in some Rally America events, as it would be nice to see someone challenging the SRT USA cars.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 09:43 (Ref:3772272)   #24
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Terry is well into building the car, been painted engine is done, just time. Love to know where he gets his money from, as he has a serious collection!!

Wjhat happened to Georges cars? the 307, Xsara Metro he had and others. I keep seeing Profile Park on a few top Irish rally cars, so he must still be around.

As for Block, I would think he probably owns some of the cars outright, the rest will be marketing tools, that is his business after all, driving for him is simply pleasure and fun, not a job.

He has a couple of Mk2's. Numerous Fiesta's. But this youtube clips alone make him milions so easy to ping a few hundred grand to buy a WRC Escort
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 10:44 (Ref:3772275)   #25
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Surprising and disappointing to see Block leave WRX.

Last year I was very positive about the Focus but they didn't make a step forward this season.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 11:36 (Ref:3772278)   #26
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He has a couple of Mk2's. Numerous Fiesta's. But this youtube clips alone make him milions so easy to ping a few hundred grand to buy a WRC Escort
God knows how many Fiestas there are now! One was up for sale (the "HFHV" Fiesta), but I think there are at least two more. Think he just has the one Escort? It was a rally/showcar...



...then the same car was rebuilt for gymkhana:



(Not too sure how I feel about the above: it was a pretty well sorted rally car, so a shame to see it hacked up)

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Last year I was very positive about the Focus but they didn't make a step forward this season.
Yeah. I was expecting more development of the car in the off season and Bakkerud to take several race wins this year.
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Old 6 Oct 2017, 12:10 (Ref:3772286)   #27
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Yeah. I was expecting more development of the car in the off season and Bakkerud to take several race wins this year.
But with MSport only contracted to build and develop the car I can imagine there's less initiative from them to really make it better. No extra money, no extra development. Probably would be different if it would really a MSport project.
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Old 7 Oct 2017, 16:04 (Ref:3772526)   #28
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Hansen-Peugeot are very bitter

Its a bit hypocritical really considering Hansen turned up with the only true manufacturer supported car in 93 and continued for years with far more support than anyone else

The comments on here are only reflecting what happens in any form of motorsport.... at any level someone will always turn up having spent more money over the winter and pushed the boundaries further

Look what happened when Isachsen turned up, then Larsson, etc..

From the nineties onwards all the diehards (including me) wanted to see manufacturer support but it took far longer than we all wanted but when it came along we all privately knew it would change the goalposts.

Lets hope some of the smaller manufacturers turn their eye to the championship and it doesn't alienate itself. Personally Id like to see a few things happen...
A local star driver in a hire car (not a clubman but someone who has international status, Mcrae, Meeke etc...
The odd F1 driver have a go
The cars continuing to be filtered down to privateers the same as it always has and as WRC cars do.
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Old 7 Oct 2017, 18:20 (Ref:3772588)   #29
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We have had all that already, we had an ex F1 driver, he was useless.

We had McRae, we have Loeb, Block, Solberg Wilks, had Meeke in the past.

The issue now is that you cannot compete with the elite, you could in the past. Even with the budget you can't unless you are in a team or something, you are encouraged to do ERX.

Hansen was not works, the car was works supported, and all that meant was that he got special engines and more than one so he could blow them up if he wanted! Citroen did not run or build the car, they gave him some budget and free engines!!

Schanche was the same. As was Eklund to some extent.

Isachsen had a bottomless pit and was prepared to push the envelope with what he spent, he was a very good driver but he drove the same car for years!!! Larsson learned his craft in other cars, went through the classes in Sweden and finally built one of the best rallycross cars of the modern era. Hardly spending millions more than anyone else. And this was in the amateur days. not WRX.

The current issue is one of disproportionate budgets. It did not matter in the past as it was an amateur sport, now it is borderline pro, with big money and huge marketing, they want close racing and entertainment, and they are getting much less of both
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Old 8 Oct 2017, 21:08 (Ref:3773080)   #30
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We have had all that already, we had an ex F1 driver, he was useless.

We had McRae, we have Loeb, Block, Solberg Wilks, had Meeke in the past.

The issue now is that you cannot compete with the elite, you could in the past. Even with the budget you can't unless you are in a team or something, you are encouraged to do ERX.

Hansen was not works, the car was works supported, and all that meant was that he got special engines and more than one so he could blow them up if he wanted! Citroen did not run or build the car, they gave him some budget and free engines!!

Schanche was the same. As was Eklund to some extent.

Isachsen had a bottomless pit and was prepared to push the envelope with what he spent, he was a very good driver but he drove the same car for years!!! Larsson learned his craft in other cars, went through the classes in Sweden and finally built one of the best rallycross cars of the modern era. Hardly spending millions more than anyone else. And this was in the amateur days. not WRX.

The current issue is one of disproportionate budgets. It did not matter in the past as it was an amateur sport, now it is borderline pro, with big money and huge marketing, they want close racing and entertainment, and they are getting much less of both
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I didnt say Hansen was works I said manufacturer supported...... at the time support and free engines was a massive advantage over everyone else
Larsson was certainly more geared up than everyone else at the time. With the skoda they had at least 1.5 cars as spares with them at anyone time... so much so he built a car from them over the winter one year

Borderline pro....... Hansen was a professional driver as was Schanche
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