IMSA: USCR 2018

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Damian Baldi

I have my doubts, because in the group-c era, it was common to use 1.1 to 1.8 bars of turbo pressure (over the atmosphere), and a 3.5 v8 (Nissan or Toyota) engine could get near 900 HP and 850NM of torque.

At the IMSA table, the Acura and Nissan DPi engines (both v6) with 3.5 and 3.8 litres respectively seems to have 1.7 and 1.8 bars of max pressure, but "only" 600 HP of power? Even the Porsche 3.0 litre flat-6 used to get 800HP at 1.5 bars.

I know we are talking about two different eras and different fuel consumption, but the gap is huge. I think that at the BoP list of IMSA they are showing boost inclusing the atmosphere, so the real turbo boost over atmosphere is only 0.7 and 0.8

1.7-1.8 bars is the pressure of air that turbo pushes in the combustion chamber. More high is the pressure boost, more is the amount of O2 that is burnt. Engine simply developes more torque.
A much better tuned engine developes more torque, with even less boost, consuming less fuel too.

Look at acura nsx gt3 and acura arx05, same layout and displacement, the strictly road derived engine in gt3 car needs a lot of turbo boost and a lot of fuel just to release less than 600Nm and about 520hp, while the heavily tuned dpi engine (derived by a street engine however) with less boost and consuming less fuel releases about 650Nm for the most of the whole rpm range and 600hp.

Other example, compare M6 gtlm with new m8 gte turbo boost figures.
The old 4.4L V8 was in the 1.8-1.9 range and had a 105-108L fuel tank, new reworked m8 4L V8 has less turbo boost and a decent fuel tank size; it simply means that surely new engine developes less torque but achieves the same power range with less fuel and less boost because is a better tuned engine.

About group C cars, if I recall correctly in the sauber c9 the already large mercedes 5L had >2 bar boost in qualifying setting..... you got a large engine already.... with that kind of boost.... 800hp is not so surprising... even disappointing pheraps if compared to nowadays standards.
F1 V6 1.6 turbo max pressure is reported to be in the range of 3.5bar just to say. I'm quite sure that porsche and toyota lmp1 engines use to work with over 2bars boost.

[joeb]

Well imsa announced the initial BoP off the Roar:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/imsa-sets-roar-bop/

For protos the P2 cars are as is, but the dpi cars start with 10 kg extra. And the new Caddy engine is the only unit running restrictors. Fuel capacities are similar for all cars except the Caddy who gets 8 less liters. Lots of aero information on the tables as well.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by joeb

Well imsa announced the initial BoP off the Roar:

http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/imsa-sets-roar-bop/

For protos the P2 cars are as is, but the dpi cars start with 10 kg extra. And the new Caddy engine is the only unit running restrictors. Fuel capacities are similar for all cars except the Caddy who gets 8 less liters. Lots of aero information on the tables as well.

Those caveman tech pushrod engines sure seem efficient. Surprisingly few turbo fires too.

[Damian Baldi]

Originally Posted by canaglia

About group C cars, if I recall correctly in the sauber c9 the already large mercedes 5L had >2 bar boost in qualifying setting..... you got a large engine already.... with that kind of boost.... 800hp is not so surprising... even disappointing pheraps if compared to nowadays standards.

About the Sauber, it used a lot less turbo pressure, 0.6 - 0.8 on race trim with a limit of 1.0

With 1.2 bars you have have to change the engine after one lap, that's what the article says.


From this interesting article

https://www.tradeuniquecars.com.au/r...2%80%99-review

Boost is adjustable via a dial across 10 positions, located on the far left of the cabin. There are eight positions of useable boost, ranging from zero, which is 0.4bar, incrementally through to eight, which produces 1.0bar and the maximum used under racing conditions, and even then only if really needed. Keep turning the dial past there and you encounter two additional settings, described by chief mechanic and collection manager Ben Hanson as being "one bar and a bit!" According to Ben, the last two settings are practically off limits.

"They are basically qualifying boost," he explains. "If they ran the engine on the last setting, they used to drive it for one lap then they’d effectively have to change the engine. Things start to get very hot very quickly, with turbo temperatures building to 1000 degrees, and things basically start melting. A harnessed driver in the C9 can’t reach the dial, and that’s all in the making!"

[canaglia]

indeed it was a qualifying setting as I wrote.
I know that for race trim pressure boost was nerfed to about 1.8bar, it was quite usual to use a max powered-up engine only for some laps during qualifying in recent racing past.
In last years of F1 3L V10 at example, honda and bmw engines were reported to be able to hit 20000rpm with a power release over 1000hp with an estimated lifespan of barely 100km.

About C9 engine, with qualifying max boost available, basically the car was like if powered by a 11L NA....

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by JHamilton

Those caveman tech pushrod engines sure seem efficient. Surprisingly few turbo fires too.

That's why the LS is so insanely popular(helps that it's the most well-developed and technologically advanced pushrod engine line on the market). As Mr. Regular once said, it's the Game Genie of engines.

[Purist]

Just thinking, with the old turbo Porsche engines, the 2140cc units were boosted as high as 2.8 bar, that I've seen, giving up to 810 hp in the 935. For the 2650cc or so engines in the earlier 956/962 variants, it got up to 2.4-2.5 bar. With the 3160cc to 3.2-litre units in the later 962s, I think those got up to 2.2-2.3 bar. About the highest official quoted power figure for the 956/962 is 750 hp.

I'm guessing it was probably for qualifying that it got so high, but I think the 2140cc four-banger in the Eagle Toyota was giving as much as 4.0 bar with boost pressure, which before the new restrictor at Atlanta in 1993, would easily give at least 800 hp, probably more like 900 hp in that trim, and still 800 at racing boost. The restrictor cut that back to, officially, around 700 hp. Still, those cars were capable of setting lap records even pegged back like that; most of the time, they just chose to take it easier than that in 1993 though, because they could.

[JHamilton]

Originally Posted by FormulaFox

That's why the LS is so insanely popular(helps that it's the most well-developed and technologically advanced pushrod engine line on the market). As Mr. Regular once said, it's the Game Genie of engines.

I've got a LS2 and a gen IV hemi in the stable. They're both amazing but in surprisingly different ways.

I was just throwing shade Joe's way too. I like ICEs of all flavors.

[pach233]

Just saw the Spirit of Daytona Cadillac unveiling at Racer. Where is the funding coming from for that team? I know in the GA days they were one of the "subsidized" teams and recently they've had visit florida as a sponsor. I assume McMurry is bringing some money but Dpi isn't exactly cheap. Would GM be footing some of the bill to give themselves another bullet against an increasingly stacked field?

[joeb]

Originally Posted by pach233

Just saw the Spirit of Daytona Cadillac unveiling at Racer. Where is the funding coming from for that team? I know in the GA days they were one of the "subsidized" teams and recently they've had visit florida as a sponsor. I assume McMurry is bringing some money but Dpi isn't exactly cheap. Would GM be footing some of the bill to give themselves another bullet against an increasingly stacked field?

Good question, and maybe they will show up with some sponsorship at Daytona.

https://twitter.com/RACERmag/status/947974811917074432

Car looks great though. And that livery let's you imagine what it would look like with no fin.

[mariantic]

Originally Posted by pach233

Just saw the Spirit of Daytona Cadillac unveiling at Racer. Where is the funding coming from for that team? I know in the GA days they were one of the "subsidized" teams and recently they've had visit florida as a sponsor. I assume McMurry is bringing some money but Dpi isn't exactly cheap. Would GM be footing some of the bill to give themselves another bullet against an increasingly stacked field?

Dig back through this forum a bit and I think you'll find a connection between Spirit of Daytona and the France family.

I remember checking out registered addresses and memberships of boards a year or so back...

Mariantic

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by pach233

but Dpi isn't exactly cheap.

DPi costs about the same as running GTD.

-mike

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

DPi costs about the same as running GTD.

-mike

Assuming that's just running costs not including car purchase? As much as GT3 cars are I'm guessing DPis are more?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

Assuming that's just running costs not including car purchase? As much as GT3 cars are I'm guessing DPis are more?

No, that's all in.

Give someone a blank check to go start a race team for the IMSA season, and it'll cost about the same.

-mike

[Adam43]

Would that result in the same level of competitiveness within the class/series? I realise this isn't a straight forward question.

[Coach Ep]

Car could be leased of course, somewhat limiting the cost involved.

Agreed car looks great and from an esthetics point of view, I hope there will be as few sponsors as possible.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

DPi costs about the same as running GTD.

-mike

Hi, could you reveal some figures?

some estimation like season budget for a mid-field lmp2/dpi team and budget for top teams. Late 2016 I was reading that WTR expected to spend less than 10 mln $ for the whole 2017 season.

BTW for budget I mean the overall costs; car purchase, spare parts, salaliers, logistics etc...

[Akrapovic]

http://theracingline.net/2018/imsa/w...olex-24-entry/

Finally some news regarding Risi. 2 cars, but only the Rolex mentioned.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

http://theracingline.net/2018/imsa/w...olex-24-entry/

Finally some news regarding Risi. 2 cars, but only the Rolex mentioned.

Great to see Risi with two cars! About time we see more than 1 red (pro) Ferrari in the field, even if just for one race.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by TF110

Great to see Risi with two cars! About time we see more than 1 red (pro) Ferrari in the field, even if just for one race.

But it is one PRO car, the second is a GTD with what looks to be one Ferrari driver and the rest a crew of SuperCup/Challenge/Super Trofeo drivers.

And on the that's what we expected front:

Multiple calls to team principal Simon Dawson, who founded the effort with his father Ian, went unreturned in recent weeks, and on Wednesday, the Texas-based squad confirmed its absence from the 2018 IMSA season-opener.

"We've had a few delays, as often happens with a new team, new car, new infrastructure," said Ian Dawson. "Although we would love to commence the season at the Rolex 24 At Daytona, it is also one of the most grueling races in the world. We decided that rather than rush with a new car not yet tested, new drivers, new team, to try to make the Roar Before the 24 test days at Daytona the first week of January and then the race just over two weeks later, we would delay our race start."

Apparently their check hasn't cleared with Ligier cause they don't have a car yet. From S365 article:

"It’s understood the team has yet to take delivery of its Ligier JS P217 Gibson, although believed to not be related to any production delays from Onroak Automotive.

Onroak retook possession of the chassis Spirit of Daytona Racing utilized last year and has been at its Denver, N.C. base in ready-to-race configuration."


But their photoshop game is on point:

[joeb]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But it is one PRO car, the second is a GTD with what looks to be one Ferrari driver and the rest a crew of SuperCup/Challenge/Super Trofeo drivers.

And on the that's what we expected front:

Multiple calls to team principal Simon Dawson, who founded the effort with his father Ian, went unreturned in recent weeks, and on Wednesday, the Texas-based squad confirmed its absence from the 2018 IMSA season-opener.

"We've had a few delays, as often happens with a new team, new car, new infrastructure," said Ian Dawson. "Although we would love to commence the season at the Rolex 24 At Daytona, it is also one of the most grueling races in the world. We decided that rather than rush with a new car not yet tested, new drivers, new team, to try to make the Roar Before the 24 test days at Daytona the first week of January and then the race just over two weeks later, we would delay our race start."

Apparently their check hasn't cleared with Ligier cause they don't have a car yet. From S365 article:

"It’s understood the team has yet to take delivery of its Ligier JS P217 Gibson, although believed to not be related to any production delays from Onroak Automotive.

Onroak retook possession of the chassis Spirit of Daytona Racing utilized last year and has been at its Denver, N.C. base in ready-to-race configuration."


But their photoshop game is on point:

Who could have seen this coming?

[Ospi]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But it is one PRO car, the second is a GTD with what looks to be one Ferrari driver and the rest a crew of SuperCup/Challenge/Super Trofeo drivers.

And on the that's what we expected front:

Multiple calls to team principal Simon Dawson, who founded the effort with his father Ian, went unreturned in recent weeks, and on Wednesday, the Texas-based squad confirmed its absence from the 2018 IMSA season-opener.

"We've had a few delays, as often happens with a new team, new car, new infrastructure," said Ian Dawson. "Although we would love to commence the season at the Rolex 24 At Daytona, it is also one of the most grueling races in the world. We decided that rather than rush with a new car not yet tested, new drivers, new team, to try to make the Roar Before the 24 test days at Daytona the first week of January and then the race just over two weeks later, we would delay our race start."

Apparently their check hasn't cleared with Ligier cause they don't have a car yet. From S365 article:

"It’s understood the team has yet to take delivery of its Ligier JS P217 Gibson, although believed to not be related to any production delays from Onroak Automotive.

Onroak retook possession of the chassis Spirit of Daytona Racing utilized last year and has been at its Denver, N.C. base in ready-to-race configuration."


But their photoshop game is on point:

Heh no surprises. That pic isnt photoshop though, just a stickered JSP3.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

[Nick Woodbury]

They Have Arrived!

[Akrapovic]

Took a while, but 3GT has confirmed there will be a second car. Baumann and Marcelli. Hell of a lineup that one.

There must surely be quite a few drivers till to be announced between the roar and rolex?

[FormulaFox]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But their photoshop game is on point:

Not a photoshop. That's their Ligier LMP3. Which they have taken delivery of, and is on the PC entry list for Daytona(drivers TBD).