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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:03 (Ref:3009035)   #251
ChrisG99
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Originally Posted by roadboy View Post
Hi Chris,

These cages are used in nearly every series I know of involving Lotus Elise. Are there any new MSA regulations that exclude this?

Nearly all the cars in the Elise Trophy, Lotus Cup UK, etc. run this cage.

Any comment about why the regulation about the seat mounting has been added?

Cheers

Dan
If you read down to reg section on safety a full cage is required similar to the one Si put link to.
As to the actual reasoning to not allowing centrally seated cars other than to stop some of these purpose built track cars I am unable to enlighten more.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:38 (Ref:3009051)   #252
skeggy
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I'm, naturally, very disappointed that there is no Cadwell race but will accept Snett as a substitute!
You'll just have to put up with the long drive Pete!

Dan -wrt your rollbar have a look at these:

NSSCC reg 5.14
"5.14 Rollcages
To comply to drawing number(s) 3,4,5 or 6 + side impact protection of K(g) (h)"

Online 2012 Blue Book section K - pictures a the bottom of the file:

http://www.msauk.org/uploadedfiles/m...afety)_(K).pdf

Hope that helps.

Not sure about the seat position reg - wasn't the Elise that raced last year a central seater?

Mark - wouldn't your car be eligible in E1?
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:47 (Ref:3009053)   #253
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There was no single reason for the seating position wording. One reason being it was thought that Joe public watching NSSCC could relate to the cars. Not saying err where do I buy a central seated XYZ.
Jeff Wilsons is based on a Jade sports car but is in Class A where just about anything goes.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:50 (Ref:3009054)   #254
Peter Dixon
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Evening Mr Skeggs, has benson and hedges made any plans yet for next year? I know Rich was on about going to RWD.

To be fair, I hate the journey to snett but I have an uncle who lives in Norwich so my digs are all sorted!

Just been looking at the blue book myself, think my cage wouldn't pass the NSSCC regs, it looks like you need 2 door bars where mine only has one, could someone confirm this?
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:52 (Ref:3009055)   #255
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Just thinking the same Pete.
i've only got a single door bar but that looks like you need two bars or cross
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 17:57 (Ref:3009057)   #256
roadboy
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Hi Chris,

I may be being daft but where in the regulations does it say a 6 point cage with side protection is required?

All I can find is that safety equipment must comply to Blue Book Section K. I am 100% confident my cage complies with Section K.

So is the central seat regulation set in stone then?

I have checked the regulations back to 2005 and there is no mention of this specific regulation.

Who do I need to speak to to find out why it's been introduced and whether or not it can be removed as there don't seem to have been any problems without it in the regs for the last 7 years.

Cheers

Dan
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:02 (Ref:3009060)   #257
simon.g
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additional door bars aint the end of the world

http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/Race_...ars/50/0/10846
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:03 (Ref:3009062)   #258
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Im hopefully getting my cage welded next couple of days so pleased spotted the change as mine wont comply either
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:13 (Ref:3009066)   #259
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does the gage still have to comply with the blue book if it is homologated by the msa?
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:15 (Ref:3009068)   #260
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is there anything special about that bar? sounds a lot for what it is? mate of mine has a steel fabrication company would imagine its quids to buy ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by sgeecars View Post
additional door bars aint the end of the world

http://www.jjcraceandrally.com/Race_...ars/50/0/10846
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffC View Post
Im hopefully getting my cage welded next couple of days so pleased spotted the change as mine wont comply either
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:15 (Ref:3009069)   #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadboy View Post
Hi Chris,

I may be being daft but where in the regulations does it say a 6 point cage with side protection is required?

All I can find is that safety equipment must comply to Blue Book Section K. I am 100% confident my cage complies with Section K.

So is the central seat regulation set in stone then?

I have checked the regulations back to 2005 and there is no mention of this specific regulation.

Who do I need to speak to to find out why it's been introduced and whether or not it can be removed as there don't seem to have been any problems without it in the regs for the last 7 years.

Cheers

Dan
Dan,
Just been looking at 2012 BB as you can see a lot of red type designating that they have been modified. This is one of the sections in our regs we have had to rewrite already as the MSA would only allow how it is written now i.e. all of section K applies.
Re seating write to the committee via secretary and it will be dealt with officially. Need to be quick we need the regs finalised so everyone knows what they are doing.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:20 (Ref:3009072)   #262
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is there anything special about that bar? sounds a lot for what it is? mate of mine has a steel fabrication company would imagine its quids to buy ??
That was £52 inc VAT for the pair with all brackets on, I didn't think it was too bad to be honest.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:23 (Ref:3009073)   #263
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my car would be eligible in E1 but its completely un limited so a 320 horse durabang could show up and walk it. For E1 to work they should consider a cc split
Has anyone noticed for a cage made after 2008 it has to be professionally fitted?
Not sure how that works for my bolt on?
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:29 (Ref:3009074)   #264
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Originally Posted by ChrisG99 View Post
Dan,
Just been looking at 2012 BB as you can see a lot of red type designating that they have been modified. This is one of the sections in our regs we have had to rewrite already as the MSA would only allow how it is written now i.e. all of section K applies.
Re seating write to the committee via secretary and it will be dealt with officially. Need to be quick we need the regs finalised so everyone knows what they are doing.
Ok, I was being daft about the cage but I'll have to look into that with the MSA as with the height of the sills on the Elise the fitment of side protection above that would make it virtually impossible to get in and out. Front bars are not a problem. I can change my cage to suit.

Can I write to the committee by email (via the secretary) or do I have to send it by mail?

Cheers

Dan
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:30 (Ref:3009075)   #265
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Someone will always buy build or obtain something that will beat everything else in class strutured racing, look at Scottish saloons when the Focus's were around!!!!!!!!!! need I say more they just spent money as if it was going out of fashion.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:30 (Ref:3009076)   #266
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That was £52 inc VAT for the pair with all brackets on, I didn't think it was too bad to be honest.
I thought it was a lot for a couple of lengths of tube and nowt technical about the brackets but I will bow to your knowledge Pierre you being an ex steel worker
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:32 (Ref:3009077)   #267
ChrisG99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadboy View Post
Ok, I was being daft about the cage but I'll have to look into that with the MSA as with the height of the sills on the Elise the fitment of side protection above that would make it virtually impossible to get in and out. Front bars are not a problem. I can change my cage to suit.

Can I write to the committee by email (via the secretary) or do I have to send it by mail?

Cheers

Dan
I would think email would suffice.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:34 (Ref:3009079)   #268
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I thought it was a lot for a couple of lengths of tube and nowt technical about the brackets but I will bow to your knowledge Pierre you being an ex steel worker
Now I have knowledge of cardboard, I think we could make some very light door tubes.

I just thought by the time you had the brackets all made and welded on, it wouldn't be much cheaper. BUT, you dont need those brackets, you could just shape the ends of the tube to fit the cage. Only thing is they technically have to be made out of special grade steel to comply.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:39 (Ref:3009081)   #269
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Originally Posted by Westysprinter View Post
Has anyone noticed for a cage made after 2008 it has to be professionally fitted?
not that it effects me, but where did you find this out from mark (must remember to drop your rod bolts off, i keep forgetting about them)
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:48 (Ref:3009083)   #270
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I just thought by the time you had the brackets all made and welded on, it wouldn't be much cheaper. BUT, you dont need those brackets, you could just shape the ends of the tube to fit the cage. Only thing is they technically have to be made out of special grade steel to comply.
pete, dont forget we witnessed first hand on saturday how good jeff is with steel, and cutting and templates and more cutting..........and grinding
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:49 (Ref:3009084)   #271
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not that it effects me, but where did you find this out from mark (must remember to drop your rod bolts off, i keep forgetting about them)
It was in the last MSA bulletin, when they were proposing all the optional cage brace points
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:52 (Ref:3009085)   #272
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pete, dont forget we witnessed first hand on saturday how good jeff is with steel, and cutting and templates and more cutting..........and grinding
Yes, but he's not doing it, so probs quite safe!
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:54 (Ref:3009086)   #273
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Originally Posted by ChrisG99 View Post
There was no single reason for the seating position wording. One reason being it was thought that Joe public watching NSSCC could relate to the cars. Not saying err where do I buy a central seated XYZ.
Jeff Wilsons is based on a Jade sports car but is in Class A where just about anything goes.
Very good point about Jeff's car and class - I'll try and read things properly in future!

Not sure about the "Joe public watching NSSCC could relate to the cars" as no one promotes the races to Joe public.........but that a discussion for another time/thread.
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 18:57 (Ref:3009087)   #274
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Emailed Steve Gibson. Guess I'll just wait and see.

Dan
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Old 8 Jan 2012, 19:03 (Ref:3009088)   #275
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Very good point about Jeff's car and class - I'll try and read things properly in future!

Not sure about the "Joe public watching NSSCC could relate to the cars" as no one promotes the races to Joe public.........but that a discussion for another time/thread.
that's just the point, anything shouldn't go in class A. its a silhouete formula and that cough Lotus cough is approx 150mm longer in the wheel base and body, how the feck does that work
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