Costs of Racing

[Graham]

Good day, Gentlemen (and ladies)...

Being a long-standing spectator (sitting sometimes ) I've often wondered just how much it costs to race the cars I see. I'm not talking about Tuscans or stuff like that, but proper club (historic) racing where you get your hands dirty and swear a lot.

It seems from those I've had contact with on the 'Net and off that there's a definite trend for racers to have jobs in the computer industry, usually at management level or above. Do you really need to have a 'big job' to race without losing your worldly possessions? Or does it just get you a bigger motorhome?

And does it, all things considered, cost more to race a historic than a modern car (parts, development, etc). Or conversely, because a modern car has had less time for development, does this make it a more difficult proposition?

Andrew Guy (http://www.tintinracing.com) - he he!, keep plugging it, keep plugging it - is a computy developer dude in London and he gave me some figures for racing his Talbot Sunbeam. To me, they were FIGURES (in capital letters, mind). Yet he races a small(ish) car in a small(ish) championship - now don't all you CSCC chappies start attacking.


Okay - I'll come clean. If I can hoard enough moolah and find a job (not necessarily in that order) I'd like to take to sprinting, hillclimbing or race in one of the Castle Combe series in 2001, with my brother. Nothing spectacular - just me, Andy, a Mini (possibly) or an old TVR (dream on...) and a back row grid position at every race. Oh, and the all-important grin (maniacal or not). I happy bunny I shall no doubt be.

Can anyone suggest a good way of starting the climb from watching to doing? Car, series, expenditure involved and so on...

I *may* be able to extract sponsorship from a couple of sources, but I'm not betting on it. Will most probably be me against the world.

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If I can get an idea about this, I can figure out now whether it's a dream that can't be fulfilled so I don't get me hopes up. It's improbable anyway, because I spend so damn much on film each season taking piccies of you lot!

BTW: I live in England. In Dorset, so Combe nice and local and cool (and cheap, I presume).

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PS. How the hell do you afford those massive motorhomes? Sponsors? It's funny when a 36 footer with all the trimmings turns up towing a battered Mini.


Cheers,

A sad little wannabee

[Peter Mallett]

Hi Graham and Merry Christmas.

Not sure if you’re posting this in the right place but we can move it elsewhere if necessary. Also we may be just talking UK here so if David Patterson wants to join in I’d be more than happy to hear his views.

I’m not sure that you need to be a high roller in the computer industry, (although that would certainly give you a large amount of free time) to be an amateur racer. As you can tell from my website I certainly don’t work in the computer (ing?) industry.

You do need to have a good job that pays a reasonable wedge. When I raced Metros I was pretty quick and only failed to win the championship because of my job, which meant that I missed the last three rounds of the championship due to overseas travel. I finished second in class and fourth overall. So the job actually stopped me from achieving. Hey Ho. My sponsors had a good time though.

For guidance. To put a competitive car on to the CSCC Group 1 grid will set you back 15 to 30 K (Sterling) and even then you don’t know if you can beat the others because skill and talent come into the equation. However its definitely cheaper to run with the CSCC than (say) the NSCC, which is possibly the only viable alternative saloon car championship.

With the CSCC you can run as a team and a mini cooper (S?) would fit into the historic and post historic championships. The BARC is starting a championship for sports cars which will be based on the Group 1 regulations and will pass over to the stewardship of the CSCC once it is up and running.

As to starter championships, within the UK there are many choices. The 750 MC or the MG Car Club have many various championships of which the MG Car Club Metro and 750 MC Stock Hatch Championships are possibly the cheapest starter championships of them all. You have an affinity with Castle Combe, however it caters (very ably) for local championships and does not usually carry a round for the championships, which I have mentioned. If you want to progress beyond novice, I would not recommend a single circuit championship.

On th subject of TVRs. There is a Tuscan for sale in this week’s Autosprout for Pst 25K. Not bad value but if you bought it you’d spend another ten K just getting on to the track. (New engine, tyres, springs etc.).

If you ask Florian how much he and his team have spent on racing he would probably cry before revealing the total cost. He may have a sponsor but you still need to spend money before you get that support.

We’re lucky because we race at Spa Francorchamps and other great tracks so Brands Hatch and Castle Combe don’t have to feature so much in our racing lives. (Great tracks but awful organisation).

Don’t give up though. As long as people like us put themselves through purgatory to fund their racing, the circuits will stay open. If we don’t then we’ll be left with Touring Car (mostly “yawn” but good tv) and F1 (quite a lot of “yawn”).

Incidentally, I’m not sure about your reference to “Small Championships”. The Group 1 championship regularly fills grids which is more than can be said for the Tuscans, MGFs, Combe GTs etc.

Looking forward to seeing some replies from this.

Cheers

[Graham]

Peter,

Thanks for replying, and merry xmas (again).

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WEBSITE
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If you ever need a spruce-up give me a shout. Would have to be in March, though - other sites to do first...

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CHAMPIONSHIP
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I think I'd be looking to run in a Castle Combe series to both keep travel costs down and to learn the racing art by driving the same track, thereby gradually honing skills and being able to try new things each time. Of course, I'm only guessing at this so anyone who runs a car at Combe might like to give me a few pointers....?

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CAR
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It's probably folly to suggest this, but I don't think it would be practical or wise to start with a ultra competitive car. The way I see it (at first anyway) is the slower you go, the more time you have to work on skills and the softer the inevitable impacts will be. After a time I'm sure it will be a constant quest for 'more speed, more speed' but to begin with I'm quite happy to sit at the back and watch what everyone else does.

Most likely car is one that is interesting (therefore NO GTis), does not have a boy-racer-esque body kit (no Fords), isn't ugly, handles quite well ... I need go no further than to say it would almost definately be a Mini. Love 'em, you see. Would probably be non-Coopered to keep initial cost down.

If we/ I did go the Mini route, I'm not sure whether I'd go with my heart with an old Mini, or go for reliability and possible greater ease with a newer Mini (say, a couple of years old). I suppose it would depend on what cropped-up and how it looked from a finance POV.

An old TVR might be very cool on track and satisfy our Blackpool allegiance, but there are few prepared racers and we've no experience of their mechanicals or even how they handle. I'm talking about a Vixen or Grantura - Andrew Guy advised me a while back that there are very few championships for M-series or Wedges (discounting the new Tasmins). I also think that race parts for such cars would be both rare and expensive, so therefore not an option at the moment (sigh).

However, having said that, I see in Motorsport this month there's a yellow race-prepared Vixen (HSCC-spec methinks) but it's far too expensive for my non-existent funds.

I could never bring myself to sit in an MG Metro - I'm of an age whereby I've seen (and known) the sad boy racers with blacked-out windows (etc) on the roads, so draw parallels. Metro isn't 'historic' enough for me either (unless a 6R4, but that's another story...). I like my chrome!

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COMBE
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An affinity with Combe? Probably. It's the nearest track to me, it provides excellent racing and is ideal for my photographic adventures. I don't like the biting cold, though - someone plant some trees, for God's sake.


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AUTOSPORT TUSCAN
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I've drooled over Tuscans (and T70s, M8Fs, Miuras, Lotus Cortinas, TGP machines, ...) for sale in Autosport or Motorsport for nigh on 7 years. The one you point to had not escaped my attention.

But the chances of purchasing it (or any other Tuscan) are as remote as winning the lottery. Besides, I'd certainly not wish to race a TVR-engined Tuscan - I've been bred on the sound of a Rover V8! I'll go out of my way to hear one - trips to see my step-brother are ALWAYS punctuated by a quick blast in his wedge, with him driving sadly

It was excellent when Andrew introduced me to the blokes of RKP Racing (website coming soon) while they were running the engine of their Rover SDi. Grin Factor 10!!

There have been several Tuscans (RV8-powered) advertised in recent months, and all have been around £15,000. That's about £13,000 too much But who knows what I might afford if I find a job. Yeah... 'if'. Anyone got too much cash...?


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FLORIAN AND HIS MINI
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I think it is the travel costs that bump up Florian's budget. He said to me in a recent mail that Blighty is a kind of hotspot for historic racing, so I suppose if he lived here he could race for less. Perhaps Brits are living in the past

I don't want to live anywhere else if that's true!


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ZZZZZZZZZ
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I agree wholeheartedly with the statements about Tourers and Boremula 1 (or Boredom Factor 1)


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CSCC
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Your club seems quite good, but it is relatively small when considering the other saloon racing options that Andrew could have competed under BRSCC or BARC. On an exposure scale, it doesn't seem particular big - certainly, I'd never heard of the various CSCC races I saw at Combe until Andrew contacted me. Perhaps that's an indictment on me, but in my defence I've sampled a large array of series since 1992/3 at all sorts of levels. Perhaps it is the fact that you only returned to Combe this year after so long a gap that explains my ignorance

Tuscans have qualifying races in order to fit all the cars in!

Thanks.

[Florian Lacroix]

Oh Guys, it is the worst topic I never seen on 10 tenths

Hopefully for me, my dad is paying most of the budget of our racing season. My father and I are not involved in the real preparation (mechanic) of the car but our sponsor is our preparator for the moment but we have to pay entry fees, fuel, tyres, trips, hotels, insurance....
I can say that a FIA racing week-end in excellent condition is about 3 000 £ but for 2 drivers. Some of my friends in this serie spend the double (we don't have the same lorry). Unfortunately, this serie is expensive because if you want to be competitive you need to hava all the best parts for your car. I wouldn't say a word of the price of the car but it is not reasonnable for a Mini.
I have got some friends who are racing in France for 400£ the race and with a Mini at 4 000 £ so it is up to you and to the money you want to put in racing.
Cheers.

[TimD]

Graham,

Greetings from someone in exactly the same boat as you. I've got Lister-Jaguar dreams and a Reliant Robin budget.

End of last year, December, I think, Classic & Sportscar magazine ran a feature on Doug Rhodes, who prepped a fabulous looking Ford Anglia for the Goodwood meeting on a tiny budget. True the car was not the fastest on the grid, nor the most reliable, but it gave him the experience of racing in one of the premier meetings on the calendar - against club drivers and ex F1 stars.

Since the article, though, a note of caution. Last summer the car was rolled to oblivion in a Silverstone gravel trap. It's a bit like the stock market. You put everything into your investment, and there's no guarantee you'll get anything out.

I tend to agree with Peter on the circuits. If the car you wind up with is street-legal or better still light enough to be legitimately trailered by a road car, there is no reason why travelling costs throughout the southern half of England should be bad.

I met a man last year who carries his Lotus Elan on a trailer behind a regular saloon. No idea of his job or budget, but he has a young family who come with him to meets, so it can't be costing a kings ransom.

In short, years of following club historics about from Oulton to Brands has assured me it can be done. Now it's just a question of choosing an affordable car that does it for me. At the moment, I'm starting to swing towards a HSCC spec 70s Roadsport. That's anything from VW/Porsche 914 and Porsche 911, through Lancia Fulvias and Betas, and I even saw a Lotus Eclat racing last year. Good series. Be interesting to see what you eventually go for.

How about a TVR 1600M for starters?

[TimD]

Just remembered.

One of the fastest cars in the Pirelli Porsche Championship was made of bits from a trashed '77 911SC and a wrecked '83 Carrera. If your shell preparation is up to scratch, that's got to be a good budget way to start.

And before anyone squeaks, no I'm not advocating welding two halves together...

The mechanicals from the wrecked faster car went into the sound shell of the abused one.

[Craig]

Graham,
May I suggest another form of racing classic material ? Cheap, great fun, and CLOSE racing

BANGER RACING! - go on, you know you want to!

[Peter Mallett]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Graham:


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CHAMPIONSHIP
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I think I'd be looking to run in a Castle Combe series to both keep travel costs down and to learn the racing art by driving the same track, thereby gradually honing skills and being able to try new things each time. Of course, I'm only guessing at this so anyone who runs a car at Combe might like to give me a few pointers....?[QUOTE]

You can always do that at other tracks. As I sid you cant progress beyond novice unless you race at more than one circuit.
[QUOTE]~~~~~
CAR
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It's probably folly to suggest this, but I don't think it would be practical or wise to start with a ultra competitive car. The way I see it (at first anyway) is the slower you go, the more time you have to work on skills and the softer the inevitable impacts will be. After a time I'm sure it will be a constant quest for 'more speed, more speed' but to begin with I'm quite happy to sit at the back and watch what everyone else does.

Most likely car is one that is interesting (therefore NO GTis), does not have a boy-racer-esque body kit (no Fords), isn't ugly, handles quite well ... I need go no further than to say it would almost definately be a Mini. Love 'em, you see. Would probably be non-Coopered to keep initial cost down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It doesn't matter how old the original car is. If you want to race you will need to renew everything.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I could never bring myself to sit in an MG Metro - I'm of an age whereby I've seen (and known) the sad boy racers with blacked-out windows (etc) on the roads, so draw parallels. Metro isn't 'historic' enough for me either (unless a 6R4, but that's another story...). I like my chrome!

It depends what you want to do. If you want to race you'll drive anything.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
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CSCC
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Your club seems quite good, but it is relatively small when considering the other saloon racing options that Andrew could have competed under BRSCC or BARC. On an exposure scale, it doesn't seem particular big - certainly, I'd never heard of the various CSCC races I saw at Combe until Andrew contacted me. Perhaps that's an indictment on me, but in my defence I've sampled a large array of series since 1992/3 at all sorts of levels. Perhaps it is the fact that you only returned to Combe this year after so long a gap that explains my ignorance

Tuscans have qualifying races in order to fit all the cars in!

Thanks.[/b]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The CSCC Championships are administered by the BARC which is why we don't race at Combe very often. We also need to run qualification races at the more popular tracks. You are typical of the average Autosprout reader in that Marcus Pye and his merry men consider Fford, FVauxhall, Tuscans and other semi-professional championships as Club racing. Therefore Club racing never gets coverage. Doesn't stop us enjoying ourselves though.

Hope these "quote" things work.



[This message has been edited by Peter Mallett (edited 26 December 1999).]

[Graham]

Florian,

How much does competition insurance cost in France?

Andrew Guy mentioned it's too expensive for him over here - is that what other British racers find?


Tim D,

My budget at the moment will not even stretch to a Robin.

I like Anglias but a bit ugly. Well... a lot ugly. That front grill and raked back window - yuk! But supposedly a fun little car to race. Like an A35 I suppose.

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Ugleeee...
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Oooooooooh. Aaaaaah. Eeeeeee. Mmmmmmmm.
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I'd like to race this 'un...
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Judging by the prices quoted for Anglias in Autosport et al, you won't be seeing me in one anytime soon.

I think it would be road-legal - couldn't afford a trailer. Well, I could borrow my cousin's (he uses it to transport his classic tractor to shows) but it's a bit wonky, so wouldn't really trust it all the way to Donington or wherever. The only problem I foresee in driving me car to the track is the inevitable stuffing of said vehicle into the scenery by a cack-handed driver (me). Wonder if Andy's AA membership covers racing accidents...

HSCC, huh? If you've 8K, there's a TVR Vixen for sale in Motorsport.

TVR 1600M? Well... being a Blackpool devotee, I've already looked at that for racing. Unfortunately, I don't see too many race-prepared Tivs - preparing one ourselves is a non-starter.

Perhaps I should persuade my step-brother to 'donate' his 350i Should have the grunt if we fit a rollcage and other necessities... ooh, the noise! [bliss]. Unfortunately, I see the mixture of too much power, an undeveloped chassis, a leaden right-foot (just to hear the rumble) and the proximity of tyre barriers may *just* nip this idea in the bud

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[drool] - a Tiv like my brother's, and yes, I'm jealous.
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How about an old FFord? Anyone here race one? Come in Tony Harman...

This isn't Tony, but Richard Carter (thanks to Lee Purnell for telling me)

*** Does anyone here know about sprinting or hillclimbing and whether it's worth considering for a novice season? ***

Craig,

I couldn't stand smashing up the cars I love. To see Minis, Escorts, Jags and others being wrecked forever by silly people with tattoos is enough to make me cry (sort of).

How about lawnmower racing - got the mechanic (Andy) and parts (he mends mowers all day) already. I could get everything trade-price as well. He he! I think I'll investigate....

Other than that, there's offroad trials. Our orchard is now the home not only of three Morris Minors, a BMW 1000 motorcycle and a classic Fordson Major tractor, but also of a V8 Landie in need of LOTS of TLC. Cousin's bringing over a bloody knackered Porsche 944 (or something like that) next week - shall push it into the ditch! I hate Porsches. And Ferraris.

Or there's karting, but that seems so childish. Autograss, autotests or even a few track days in brother's Tiv (yeah, right!). Or Andy's Mini... (erm, maybe not)


NB : if anyone is getting sick of me illustrating posts with piccies, kick me squarely and surely in the head (virtually).

[Craig]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I couldn't stand smashing up the cars I love. To see Minis, Escorts, Jags and others being wrecked forever by silly people with tattoos is enough to make me cry (sort of).
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd not cry - the material is at the end of it's life anyway, and the banger track is a simple diversion from the road to the crusher. A hell of a way for old 2.8 Grannys and big Jags to go out!

Talking of karting... Watch the classifields forum later this evening... may have something to interest you... And, no, it's not at all childish (unless you went in the cadet or junior classes!) - it's just a blinding day out with fellow petrol heads, and a good reason to go to the pub for a jolly on the way home!

[Peter Mallett]

Er Graham blokee.

Gonna move this to "Other Classes" because I think we've strayed from "Historics" here. Good pics though. Keep it up

[Graham]

Peter lad,

Tracks : budget very low, Combe near. Combe also have selection of series for different car types - saloon, sports, single seat. Okay?

Why can't you progress? Regulations, or is that just the perception of established drivers? Surely not elitism?

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Whatcha mean by 'renew' everything? I'm aware of the work needed to change road car into racing car. Anyway, I'd be looking for a prepared car, rather than doing this myself. Maybe when the old mechanical skills are up to it, I'd then look to upgrade the car and prepare it to my specs.

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If I want to race, I'll drive anything? Peter, you don't know me at all... For example, I was walking home from my aunt's house. I met someone I knew who offered me a lift. The car was a KA. I declined the lift... Principles and bias towards ****e cars rule my life

I'd rather *not* race than turn up with a boring car (from every POV) that's more suited to carrying shopping. Therefore, I'll be looking for a *car* rather than a mobile swollen bruise.

Umm... when did I say Tuscans (or FFord or FVaux) were club racing? A budget of £70,000 for an 'arrive and drive' season is not exactly grassroots. I've watched REAL club racing for all my spectating life. And REAL club racing involves doing your own dirty work, sleeping in a tent and mortgaging your house to afford 'that new engine I've wanted'. I read Autosport and Motorsport regularly. Autosport I read from the back forwards, falling asleep when the eponymous characters "F" and "1" are mentioned. Motorsport is hardly more than a photo album nowadays, but then, it gives me the fix of historics I need.

Club racing never gets coverage? I remember Steve Higgs (you must know him...?) telling me that club racers are the worst people for promotion. They whinge that there's no coverage, yet do nothing to remedy it. Like race reports - Steve received an email from a Fulda Fiat racer bemoaning the fact that there were no reports of his series on The Grid. Steve politely asked him to send him some... silence. I hope, Peter, you are not like that...

In my opinion, club racing is the best form of motorsport. Therefore, there's nothing other than that on my site (with some Tuscans because... well, you know about that!). I'm showing the cars I love to watch, and all the photos (**** because I am also) are available for club racers to use free-of-charge. Plus I offer free websites to club racers, so I'm doing my bit for you lot. Plus I pay the entrance fees and keep Kodak in business (who sponsor quite a few blokeys)

Peter - you seem to have an affinity with the words "wrong", "end" and "stick".


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Craig,

Okay I was being silly.

Karting - maybe fun, but not quite my cup of tea. Of course, I'm talking about actually racing them for real, rather than challenging your mates to a race at the local indoor kart track (mentioned in mail, Craig).

I'd rather spend money keeping my arse away from the track surface, rather than moving it nearer. I'll have enough time to contemplate the qualities of tarmac when I'm barrel-rolling into Camp...


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The Ghost of Christmas Future (for me)

[Lee Purnell]

hello Graham, go for it is all I have to say.
Be warned, the Castle Combe championships are ultra competitive. Just take my mare Rick for example.
He is a good driver, but as is the case for many I would think, his money is just not endless enough to compeate wiht the likes of Tim Hanlon and the like.
Formula Ford? I wouldn't even bother. Those guys have been developing their cars for years, even those at the back of the grid.

[Craig]

Sure Graham, but what better (or cheaper) way to pick up the basics ? You don't think that Senna, Schumacher, and all the others who started in karts did so for any other reason than the fact that they're an ideal medium to learn... There's no point spending a couple of grand and getting out on the circuit if you've not got a clue!

Go to http://tentenths.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000028.html if you're interested...

[Craig]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
They whinge that there's no coverage, yet do nothing to remedy it. Like race reports - Steve received an email from a Fulda Fiat racer bemoaning the fact that there were no reports of his series on The Grid. Steve politely asked him to send him some... silence.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

haha!! That's the way of the world on the net i'm afraid, Graham. People see it as a one way medium - they think that people like you, me or Steve are providing a service such as the beeb, or Autosport are providing, and that it's a disgrace if we don't have everything to their liking...

Sadly, they are very rarely keen enough to actually get off their arse and do something to help us improve the situation... which, usually, we would be delighted to do!

[Graham]

Lee,

Yeah, the Combe series are all pretty well contested, but it's a convenient circuit (which I love) and for a while I'd be content just pootling around. Then if I'm half decent, maybe I'd do a series that takes in other circuits.

FFord : in which case I'd buy a developed machine for about £4000 (I wish). But then again, I've never been a fan of single-seaters. I'm a saloon and sports man(?) at heart.


Craig,

Oh dear, your Dad selling a kart is he? I'll have a look but I AIN'T RACING ONE

I need something I can (a) look at admiringly, (b) hear the engine without thinking there's a swarm of bees nearby and (c) dice with other interesting machines in a warm, dry cockpit.

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'Net ****box
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Yeah, I know.

I think Steve also meant that club racers were useless at promoting themselves in the 'real world' too, but I take your point.

At least all the blokeys I've had contact with concerning these website jobbies have been enthusiastic about the idea. I suppose if they weren't, they'd never have contacted me...

[Florian Lacroix]

Insurance for an event is about 1,5% of the price you want for the car : for example if you want 10 000 £ for your car in case of accident you will pay 150 £ for the event insurance (this is for historic racing and a short race race : max 1 hour).
Go in historic Graham and fight against Peter.

[Graham]

I see. ONLY £595.

In my present (very) trim financial state, that's about ... ooh ... 100% too much

However, I shall nudge a few peeps I know and maybe get some interest from them.

[Graham]

Florian,

Dunno about competition insurance in Blighty. Maybe Peter knows.

As for racing him, I'd be like the supreme general directing the battle - i.e. several miles behind the front line. Possibly limping, mad as a hare and suffering from syphilis (and that's just the car).

I suspect Peter would be the captain in the front line using his wits and tactical skill and experience to foreclose the day's skirmishes in his favour.

[Warwick]

I would think anyone who dismisses Karts without even trying one doesn't realise just how fast or how much fun these things are, for about $7000nz i will have a Kart which will hit 135mph+ and will be within a second of the outright lap record (also held by a Kart)and not even the top bikes and 600hp trans-am cars will get close to that,i have tried Bikes,off road racing(in cars),dirt speedway(in a contact class),none of it is quite as intense or gives you the sensation of speed that a Kart does.

[Lee Purnell]

Graham, I am not sure but i would think that it is probally cheaper in the short run to buy a proven race car than to start from scratch, especially if you have limited race car preperation skills.
The race parts are so expensive and you will probally have to pay a pro to prep the car for you?
The Fiat racing challange is the exception there, have you been to their official site?
Well worth a visit.
Back to Combe, Paul Gardener. Close to the championship in class c, in a suzuki swift was selling his car for about 5 grand.

[Peter Mallett]

I knew you'd get more response in this forum. The regs state that if you compete at only one circuit you can't progress beyond novice. When you race you get a signature for every finish. If they're all from the same track you don't qualify for an upgrade.

My point about coverage comes from my years writing and promoting myself and championships. I bemoan the fact that our club championships are not covered in enough detail but if you run in a semi-professional championship you get all the coverage you want. Ergo. There is no national coverage for club racing.

If you look at Autosprout this week (Xmas edition) you will find the elitists promolgating the idea that club racing is not promotable and that we (club racers) shouldn't expect spectators at our events. We should pay all the costs in our entry fees and spectators should be allowed in for free. Make your own minds up about that one.

My point about preparation was that any car (even one thats prepared) should be totally rebuilt by you before being raced. You will then know a) it meets the regs, b) its safe and c) the engine/gearbox etc. have really just been rebuilt not advertised as such.

Back to publicity. The perception given by the mags is that TVRs, MGFs etc. ar club racing. I didn't think that you personally felt that way.

[TimD]

Good point Peter.

Got to know your way around your car before you trust your life to it. No matter how sharp a prepared race car looks when you get your hands on it, until you've taken it apart, you'll never be sure you've removed all the gremlins.

Case in point. There is a car advertised in Autosport this month. Looks sharp. Very sharp. Really quite enticing.

But I saw the hard front-ender it got at Donington this year. It appears ready to race, but I for one would put a stress tester on just about everything in front of the bulkhead.

And no, to protect the vendor's blushes, I'm not going to snitch on which one it is.

One final thought - race tuition. I haven't looked into it, but is it not the case now that in order to even get an entry accepted for a race, you have to have a certificate from a recognised race school.

Safety first, but that's even more money gone west...

[Peter Mallett]

Graham,

This thread is entitled “The Cost of Racing”. In fairness I don’t think you’ve had a straight answer to the question but there is another view which is the VALUE of racing. But that is purely personal.

The Cost:

Homelife suffers. Families split up and the bank manager spends a lot of his time asking for his money back.

I know you don’t like Metros but here is what it cost me for virtually two seasons of racing.

Entry fees - £300.00 (Five events. All other fees paid by sponsor).
Car £2,500.00 (New brakes, rollcage, seat, harness etc.)
Engine £0.00 (Sponsor paid)
Tyres £200.00.
Overalls etc. £350.00.
Fuels and oils (say) £200.00)
Travel costs £0.00 (Paid by sponsor)

Sale of car at end of ’93 season £2250.00.

That is about a tenth of what it costs to race in the Group 1 Championship and yes I really do need a sponsor but the nature of my work precludes me from making long term plans.

Picking up on the insurance angle, I think you can see that it is just not good value. If you pay £10,000 for you car and another £200.00 for each event you can see that the insurance costs would make the cost of competing even more prohibitive.

“Pootling around”

Believe me you would never be happy to do that. Just “being there” is not what it’s about. It’s about competing so please don’t let anybody convince you that it’s different. I am lucky in that I race at one of the most famous and charismatic circuits in the world but if I were to be too slow you’d never get me out there.

Leading the Field:

As to being the captain and leading from the front. I refer you to my above comment. You need to practice and unfortunately my job means that quite often my first race is half way through the season. That means I’m half a season behind and not used to the car. So I tend to be playing catch up in a big way. Still things do change.

Kart Racing.

If nothing else you get a good grounding from this discipline. Don’t dismiss it because if you can’t control one of these you’ll never control a Tuscan.

Buying a proven car (Lee):

Have to repeat myself here and say that you still have to spend an awful lot of time and money to make sure its right in all departments.

Fiats (Lee):

Sorry I forgot about this one but Lee is right. It’s a competitive, fun championship.

Entry acceptance (Tim):

Actually Tim you can’t race without a licence and since ’94 the only way you can gain said licence is by attending an ARDS (Association of Racing Driver Schools) course. So, technically, you are right.

[Lee Purnell]

The Fiat challenge would be about £3500 for the car, buy or build so it depends on your own preferences. That is just for the car mind, ontop is things like entrie fees etc.
They may not be the most sporty car, which seems to be a neccesity for Graham, but they can lap the same pace as a Porche 924!