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Old 11 Apr 2018, 09:14 (Ref:3814826)   #1
ForZiE23
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ForZiE23 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Trainee to track upgrade

Currently trainee but planning on upgrade. Track wise i feel confident enough and done the dates required plus some. Now the upgrade is a two part, track and flagging. I have done 3 days flagging but its this part of the assessment which i think i am currently nervous to upgrade. I enjoyed flagging but ultimately think for now at least incident is where i would like to stay. How confident or correct do you need to be to allow passing this part of the upgrade? i can show my understanding of flags ok, wave them OK but also have the should i / shouldnt i with the blue on some situations. Welcome feedback on it as all the IO's recently have suggested i should start looking to upgrade soon but would like to make some dates for this.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:03 (Ref:3814830)   #2
deley
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deley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the griddeley should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by ForZiE23 View Post
Currently trainee but planning on upgrade. Track wise i feel confident enough and done the dates required plus some. Now the upgrade is a two part, track and flagging. I have done 3 days flagging but its this part of the assessment which i think i am currently nervous to upgrade. I enjoyed flagging but ultimately think for now at least incident is where i would like to stay. How confident or correct do you need to be to allow passing this part of the upgrade? i can show my understanding of flags ok, wave them OK but also have the should i / shouldnt i with the blue on some situations. Welcome feedback on it as all the IO's recently have suggested i should start looking to upgrade soon but would like to make some dates for this.
The guidelines for a Trainee to Track upgrade say -
======================================
The marshal needs to demonstrate that:
 they can work safely trackside,
 they are familiar with the basic marshalling requirements,
 they are aware of what is going on around them,
 they know where to seek advice and guidance and appreciate they are still learning.
Note that the level required to be demonstrated is the basic level that keeps them safe whilst being able to
act as part of the marshalling team with a minimal amount of supervision.

Practical use of flags. (All flags used on post preferably in a live environment but as a demonstration if not.)
1. Display of flags (i.e. presentation of waved & stationary)
2. Display of hazard or SC boards
3. Give the appropriate signals (e.g. not blue flagging the leader)
======================================

Questions such as is that a blue, is it stationary or waved along with does that need a yellow, is it single or double are those which even the most experienced Flag Marshal asks themself each and every time they are on the bank - it is just that for them it becomes second nature due to their experience.

It is not expected that you will be an expert flaggie but that you know what each flag is for, how and when to use them and have a reasonable ability to follow a race (you should be able to do this for any marshal role anyway).

Dave
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:07 (Ref:3814832)   #3
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Thank you for this, really useful info. Am in incorrect in the fact you need two assessments e.g. one for flagging and then a second separate day for incident?
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:09 (Ref:3814834)   #4
Terrible-Tones
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Terrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTerrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by ForZiE23 View Post
I have done 3 days flagging but its this part of the assessment which i think i am currently nervous to upgrade. I enjoyed flagging but ultimately think for now at least incident is where i would like to stay.
Well, upgrading is all about whether you feel confident enough or not.

However, my guess is that from the rest of your post you are probably worrying about nothing, to be fair. That you are worrying is great though, because it shows both a passion, and motivation to do things to the best of your ability and in the right way.

I can see that, apparently, you have more than enough attendance sigs and also more flag days than needed. In your case where you have leant towards "Incident" you need 15 attendance - 2 of which must be flag. You have 3 - excellent, good show!

The other thing to check is that you have the relevant training modules signed (you cannot upgrade without these). These are, Fire Theory, Fire Practical, Basic Skills and Flag.

You are correct in that you will need two assessments, one flag and one incident. These will need to be on separate days. It does not matter which way around they are. However, you MUST complete all the required attendance signatures, and all the required training modules, before you do the assessment days.

Lets just get some perspective. There is an actual grade of "Flag Marshal". To get there you have to go through Experienced Track and it rightly sits at the same level as I/O.

Flagging can be a "dark art". Blues particularly, and in many ways it is subjective. It can take many years to be a top notch blue flagger. I am an I/O, and honestly, my blue flagging is probably about as useful as a chocolate cookie brake pad!

What is expected at your upgrade level is to show that you can step up to a flag post, provide decent safety cover (yellows) to the Incident crew, and understand the basic blue book rules like green flag laps, flag sectors, Safety Car, Code 60, rules about blue flags, and the like. The MSA do not expect you to become an ace blue flag marshal overnight. So as long as you know the rules/flags, and can use the flags as appropriate, then you will be fine.

Stop worrying..... -

I have noticed my post crossed with Deley, listen to him, has far greater flag experience than I.

Good luck....

Last edited by Terrible-Tones; 11 Apr 2018 at 10:36. Reason: deley bloody well posting first.....grrrr LOL
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:15 (Ref:3814836)   #5
ForZiE23
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Thank you both gents, really helpful and positive words. One think i have learned is really how helpful this marshalling community can be.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 10:15 (Ref:3814837)   #6
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Terrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTerrible-Tones should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Originally Posted by deley View Post
and have a reasonable ability to follow a race (you should be able to do this for any marshal role anyway).

Dave
Damn right Dave, couldn't agree with you more. Sometimes it bothers me how often incident teams do not know who is where in the race, and more importantly, where the gaps are.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 12:28 (Ref:3814858)   #7
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Originally Posted by Terrible-Tones View Post
Sometimes it bothers me how often incident teams do not know who is where in the race
I have the odd flag day where I have the same problem...!

As others have said, don't worry excessively. If in doubt, under-use the blue, especially in qualifying, and just apply common sense for the rest. Flagging assessment at this point is, I think, trying to establish that if numbers are especially dire you can cover a flag point with a reasonable degree of competence.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 14:11 (Ref:3814878)   #8
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Teletubby should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTeletubby should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
My claim to flagging fame is that I blue flagged John Cleland in a touring car race... while he was leading! I had asked the Observer if I could have a go at flagging and he agreed, much to his later dismay.

I don't do flagging now.
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Old 11 Apr 2018, 18:43 (Ref:3814918)   #9
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Originally Posted by Teletubby View Post
My claim to flagging fame is that I blue flagged John Cleland in a touring car race... while he was leading! I had asked the Observer if I could have a go at flagging and he agreed, much to his later dismay.

I don't do flagging now.
Same thing happened to me in a race @ Brands in the late 70's, it wound me up so much that I landed up in the catch fencing at Druids, & boy was I angry.
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Old 12 Apr 2018, 08:43 (Ref:3814974)   #10
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I landed up in the catch fencing at Druids, & boy was I angry.
Ah, Chocolate Cookie Brake Pads then....?
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Old 12 Apr 2018, 17:49 (Ref:3815060)   #11
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Same thing happened to me in a race @ Brands in the late 70's, it wound me up so much that I landed up in the catch fencing at Druids, & boy was I angry.
It wasn't me!
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Old 13 Apr 2018, 07:33 (Ref:3815148)   #12
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As an Examining Post Chief I would expect you to know what each flag is for (and to be physically able to wave one). This would ascertained by questions that I would ask informally throughout the day as opposed to a list of questions asked in the form of a test.

I would also expect you to have a go at blue flagging for a couple of sessions (unless you feel confident enough to do more). I would NOT expect you to be the best blue flagger by any stretch of the imagination. Remember the blue flag is advisory only and the onus is very much on the drivers to be aware of their position in the race.

The fact that you have asked the question on here says to me that you are probably more than capable of passing your upgrade so I would say go for it
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Old 13 Apr 2018, 11:32 (Ref:3815185)   #13
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It wasn't me!
Even after 40 years i'd still like to talk to them and ask why they waved a blue flag on lap 4 or 5 at the race leader who was also the poleman.
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Old 16 Apr 2018, 09:44 (Ref:3815979)   #14
ForZiE23
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Thank you for this, its great to hear from every angle. I will be asking the question to arrange this upgrade. Fingers crossed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norbert View Post
As an Examining Post Chief I would expect you to know what each flag is for (and to be physically able to wave one). This would ascertained by questions that I would ask informally throughout the day as opposed to a list of questions asked in the form of a test.

I would also expect you to have a go at blue flagging for a couple of sessions (unless you feel confident enough to do more). I would NOT expect you to be the best blue flagger by any stretch of the imagination. Remember the blue flag is advisory only and the onus is very much on the drivers to be aware of their position in the race.

The fact that you have asked the question on here says to me that you are probably more than capable of passing your upgrade so I would say go for it
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