Toro Rosso - HONDA

knighty · 1 Aug 2017, 09:12 (Ref:3756630)

There is now a lot of rumblings that this may happen in 2018.....with the possibility of Honda also buying TR completely some time in the future.

Then you look around and you think who would Honda want to run it?......well their old mate Ron Dennis is currently twiddling his thumbs and sold all his McLaren shares, I cannot see him being idle for too long, he is the sort of person that always bounces back, and he has Hondas ear and is trusted by them.

I also read one of the issues that finally scuppered the Sauber-Honda deal is Mclaren were not prepared to share their gearbox, probably as Sauber were historically too close to Ferrari.......but they might with RorroRosso if then know Ron is involved.....hmmmm

One to watch for sure.....

Mike Harte · 1 Aug 2017, 09:33 (Ref:3756634)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knighty

Then you look around and you think who would Honda want to run it?......well their old mate Ron Dennis is currently twiddling his thumbs and sold all his McLaren shares, I cannot see him being idle for too long, he is the sort of person that always bounces back, and he has Hondas ear and is trusted by them.

Being pedantic, but McLaren haven't purchased all of Dennis' shares, yet. They are taking them back in tranches, and are having to raise the money to do so. They recently started the process, and have secured funding for the first tranche by using around 19 of the past race cars in their collection as collateral for the loan.

So often nothing in F1 is quite as it seems.

knighty · 1 Aug 2017, 11:50 (Ref:3756677)

good article here on the BBC, pretty much sums up both the driver and engine market for 2018 quite well

RedBull are dead keen for Torro Rosso to have the Honda motor, so when it turns good they can put it in the RedBull as the main works Honda team.

McLaren are chasing Renault deal quite hard

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40776162

Akrapovic · 1 Aug 2017, 11:52 (Ref:3756678)

So Red Bull have a good engine, but they want a bad engine just in case it becomes good.

knighty · 1 Aug 2017, 12:17 (Ref:3756691)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

So Red Bull have a good engine, but they want a bad engine just in case it becomes good.

being just "good" in F1 is not enough......they need a "better" engine......and if theres a slim chance of a better engine for free, then why not take the chance with your feeder team.......sound logic to me......so Renault would swap engines from TorroRosso over to McLaren......everyones a winner......and I'm sure the Renault will become "better" quicker than the Honda, so McLaren will be laughing quite soon

But there is still Mario Illien (Ilmor) in the background.....if McLaren have any sense they will use Renault temporarily for 1-2 years, but find Ilmor a partner to pay his bills......then they have an exclusive engine from F1's best engine genius......he absolutely understands turbo engines better than anyone

S griffin · 1 Aug 2017, 12:49 (Ref:3756702)

Let's hope the reliability improves, or it won't be good for rising stars in the STR team, having it break down all the time

**GTRMagic** · 1 Aug 2017, 12:58 (Ref:3756709)

Still doesn't explain if RBR have a veto clause over McLaren getting the Renault engine

I wouldn't mind betting they do...

Mr V · 1 Aug 2017, 13:18 (Ref:3756713)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knighty

....sound logic to me......so Renault would swap engines from TorroRosso over to McLaren......everyones a winner......and I'm sure the Renault will become "better" quicker than the Honda, so McLaren will be laughing quite soon

Probably makes sense to Mac but surely not to Renault ? I think it's fair to say that Mac's chassis is better the Renaults, so, why then, other than the money of course, would Renault want to supply yet another team, as well as Red Bull, with an engine that would ultimately allow that team to do better in the constructors championship ?

knighty · 1 Aug 2017, 14:56 (Ref:3756726)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr V

Probably makes sense to Mac but surely not to Renault ? I think it's fair to say that Mac's chassis is better the Renaults, so, why then, other than the money of course, would Renault want to supply yet another team, as well as Red Bull, with an engine that would ultimately allow that team to do better in the constructors championship ?

Im thinking 2 reasons

1) money and extra R&D revenue for the main renault team.....Renault are on a budget, and Carlos Gohsn is midnful of cosst running away, so extra revenue from McLaren would be welcome, much like it is to Ferreri for customer engine deals
2) it gives Renault a chassis performance benchmark to compare and chase.

Renault could easily give RedBull and McLared B-spec engines with just 10-20bhp less power than the main factory Renault team, so everyone would be competitive, but the main Renault team just that bit more faster

F1Guy · 2 Aug 2017, 05:16 (Ref:3756833)

Why do we need a thread on this when it's already being discussed in the silly season thread?

crmalcolm · 2 Aug 2017, 07:28 (Ref:3756844)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Why do we need a thread on this when it's already being discussed in the silly season thread?

I guess the OP feels that this story warrants a thread of its own, rather than being mixed in with the generic 2018 stories and rumours?

Why does anything need a thread - surely we can just have one F1 thread and talk about everything in that?

crmalcolm · 2 Aug 2017, 11:29 (Ref:3756908)

Italian press are increasingly reporting that a deal with Honda is likely.

Roberto Chinchero reports that Sainz is ready to leave STR, and that Nobuharu Matsushita is being lined up by Honda to take his place.

The apparent pause in drivers moving form STR to RB is being identified as making STR as less relevant for junior driver programme, and more relevant as a test bed and contractual pawn.

Paradise City · 2 Aug 2017, 13:31 (Ref:3756948)

I don't see Ron Dennis being involved in anything. But it does make perfect sense for Honda to evolve out of the media spotlight with a 2nd fiddle team. And if the project comes good, RBR is back with a works program, if it doesn't RBR can stick with the powerplants it has and things stay as they were. Or/and STR gets taken off their hands by Honda. Whichever.

So a STR Honda is a win or break-even arrangement for Red Bull.

**GTRMagic** · 3 Aug 2017, 19:08 (Ref:3757241)

A lazy couple of hundred million dollars thrown at a program with a team with only one grand prix win, and never usually close enough to the top 5 let alone any higher, seems a massive step down from the world famous McLaren connection..

Forza Minardi...

Akrapovic · 3 Aug 2017, 19:13 (Ref:3757243)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A lazy couple of hundred million dollars thrown at a program with a team with only one grand prix win, and never usually close enough to the top 5 let alone any higher, seems a massive step down from the world famous McLaren connection..

Forza Minardi...

Of the two (Torro Rosso and Honda), I'd say Honda is the weakest link.