SAAB

[GORDON STREETER]

For those of us in the motor trade it's been bad enough getting spares this year. Now what will happen ?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti....html?ITO=1490

[Ferrari333SP]

I thought the Saab 9-5 was a great looking car; sad to see this fate befall them.

[mountainstar]

Not all that surprised. They've been struggling for a year to do a deal, even longer to find a long term solution.

I don't see it happening. They really don't have the product line or any new product in the pipeline, so I think that's it.

[duke_toaster]

It appears that this is because GM vetoed the potential investor, not because it simply "fell through".

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

It appears that this is because GM vetoed the potential investor, not because it simply "fell through".

GM has a right to protect their intellectual property as they see fit.

In any case, it's a saab story.

[Ferrari333SP]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

GM has a right to protect their intellectual property as they see fit.

In any case, it's a saab story.

Protect their intellectual property, as in GM didn't think the potential investor wouldn't be good enough, so they'd rather have Saab go under instead?

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Ferrari333SP

Protect their intellectual property, as in GM didn't think the potential investor wouldn't be good enough, so they'd rather have Saab go under instead?

They don't own Saab anymore and haven't for 3 years, so it's not their deal and they are well within their rights to protect their intellectual property. There is nothing to stop the Saab owners from doing a tie up with another supplier of platforms and components.

Saab hasn't made money for eons, the product line never really developed much and the employees are more concerned with getting their vacations and onsite massage therapy and spa treatments. It's been dead man walking for a long time.

I think if they want a future they should follow what Valmet Automotive does in Finland by being a producer of niche automobiles for manufacturers or by running production and assembly of automotive components.

[Adam43]

It is such a shame. I always liked SAABs, they were interesting cars. Better than your run of the mill dull and under performing GM product. Well until they became dull under performing GM product.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Adam43

It is such a shame. I always liked SAABs, they were interesting cars. Better than your run of the mill dull and under performing GM product. Well until they became dull under performing GM product.

That was the thing, people thought Saabs were interesting cars, myself included, but nobody really followed through and bought them in a way that made it a profitable company.

[chunder]

To be perfectly honest buying a Saab was a bit of a strange thing to do post 900/9000

Because in reality you were getting a posh Vectra most of the time!

Did they ever actually do that much interesting, in comparison with Volvo who (though funded by Ford I guess) have launched a few new models and made the XC the tractor of choice for all the Mums, Saab have done very little, maybe as they could not afford it, but this look to me like GM cutting an arm off rather than commiting harikari!

They lost Pontiac aswell and that in the US was just as big a deal as Saab would be in Europe

[Adam43]

I don't really count those Volvo's as interesting. The old box estates are interesting in comparison!

The 900 was top, especially the turbo. Although the 900 I had was a ****box. And of course there are the old rally cars, but that is many moons before anyone started killing it.

[garcon]

It's sad to see Saab go, but if I'm honest the true Saab disappeared when GM bought them and turned their cars into just another GM badge.

It's cruelly ironic that GM, having ruined the company in the first place, should now be the ones to drive in the final nail.

[GORDON STREETER]

Maybe the spares that have been made and held back will now get onto the aftermarket as the manufacturers will need to get some of their money back.
I know of at least two cars still in the showroom that have been robbed of parts to keep ones under warranty going,
A great pity as they were a good quality quick reliable car that can be brought secondhand for a song compared with some of the junk out there !

[garcon]

If there is a reasonable ongoing parts supply there's going to be some worthwhile bargains out there. The new 9-5 is a decent car - no 5 series but a good effort. And there ain't that much choice out there if you're not keen on Teutonic coalface interiors.

[GTRMagic]

Wasnt the investor GM refused the bloke who was just in trouble for some financial gymnastics at a European bank?

The SAAB dealer network here just imploded when the cars stopped being made. Holden ran this network at the end.. and almost overnight, the regular Saab dealers, some of many many years' standing, just stopped selling Saab cars, parts, accessories.. The Saab signs at the HQ in Macquarie Park was painted over pretty quickly too.

Not sure what happened to the cars.. maybe they went back to the importer?

There are a couple of dealers still here.. selling "brand new" 2010 build cars for way more than I would pay for something like that.. with a 3 year warranty ..and a group of specialist mechanics around looking after just Saabs... wonder how they source their parts?

I always liked the Saab 99, and later 900i Combi coupe.. rode in the 99, drove the 900i.. very solid, if a little slow, cars... great dynamics though..

[Adam43]

Not quick off the line, not top end, but everything inbetween was fun for some reason.

And it wasn't a blummin' Vauxhall. It seemed to have a following. I struck me that a lot of people bought SAABs and then always went back for their next one.

[garcon]

It's like not changing your dentist. Coincidentally.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Wasnt the investor GM refused the bloke who was just in trouble for some financial gymnastics at a European bank?

The SAAB dealer network here just imploded when the cars stopped being made. Holden ran this network at the end.. and almost overnight, the regular Saab dealers, some of many many years' standing, just stopped selling Saab cars, parts, accessories.. The Saab signs at the HQ in Macquarie Park was painted over pretty quickly too.

Not sure what happened to the cars.. maybe they went back to the importer?

There are a couple of dealers still here.. selling "brand new" 2010 build cars for way more than I would pay for something like that.. with a 3 year warranty ..and a group of specialist mechanics around looking after just Saabs... wonder how they source their parts?

I always liked the Saab 99, and later 900i Combi coupe.. rode in the 99, drove the 900i.. very solid, if a little slow, cars... great dynamics though..

Yes GM made a good call on that one, the now infamous vlad antonov who controls the WRC commercial rights.

I've thought about getting an old Saab for use as a hack around town, but probably I'm going to think first about a 1990's Volvo wagon with a Ford V8 under the hood from Converse engineering.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Wasnt the investor GM refused the bloke who was just in trouble for some financial gymnastics at a European bank?

Yes and no. Antonov was a proposed investor in Spyker's first failed attempt at taking over Saab AB. GM/FBI tipped off Swedish home security that Antonov had dealings with organised crime (which were later found to be untrue) and the deal fell through.

A revised offer (with Antonov directly out of the picture) was put forward by Victor Muller and the company was finally sold becoming part of Swedish Automobiles AV (Swan).

The deal that GM have stopped this time was with Youngman Lotus Group. It was the collapse of this deal that has led Saab AB (and consequently Saab GB here in the UK) to file for bankruptcy.

Some see it as GM protecting their interests in China (where their Buick brand does a roaring trade) by preventing their IP from being passed on, others, on the side of Saab (me included, considering he was an employee of Saab GB) see it as a callous move to spite a manufacturer they wanted to die long before the very first deal from Koenigsegg collapsed back in 2009/2010.

This is the same GM that told all Saab employees just before Christmas 2009 that they were going to close Saab unless a buyer was found. In a 'nice' circular irony, it was their actions that have finally drilled the nail into the coffin, just before Christmas once again.

The problem with GM was that they categorically stated that they would never approve any deal that Muller made with the Chinese (even if it meant that the GM IP was protected). Basically, they didn't want Saab to survive in any shape or form over in China as they felt threatened by the brand and ultimately chose to use their clauses in the sale contract to veto any move with Chinese investors.

It's a shame as it has pretty much brought to an end a car manufacturer that, as many of you have pointed out, developed a penchant for quirky design and good customer loyalty. The problem with product range wasn't an inherent problem with the Saab employees in Sweden, it was GM lack of investment in the brand once they took it over in 1990. GM hardly pumped any money into Saab yet expected them to compete with and ever expanding range of Audi's on a 10 year old 9-3 design and, until last year, a 13 year old 9-5 platform. GM in this whole saga have been judge, jury and executioner.

Apologies for the long post, just thought I should provide everyone with all the details.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by barnettracing

Apologies for the long post, just thought I should provide everyone with all the details.

Its all good stuff... to read.. if not so much the ultimate outcome for Saab

It has you wondering why someone like a Proton, with access to more government funds than you might think, didnt take a punt on Saab. Would certainly have provided some interchange of technology for their own cars... and be cheaper than following the Lotus dream...

[chunder]

Well if you have money to burn as perhaps Proton do, then why not go after the dream.

Lotus, after all are involved in F1, have a much more assured name and certainly hold my stature than Saab.

Plus, they might have gone and had a look and thought "this aint goin anywhere"

Let's face, to ally yourself with Vauxhall is never a good thing, is it Lotus? And the onLY good thing that came out of that was a daft car noone bought but is held in very high regard!

Shame for Saab clearly but they havent done anything spectacular for a long while, obviously through lack of funds. Does anyne know if they are still involved with airplane motors, I believe they licence built engines for teh Swedish air force?

Certainly the old Viggen had a Saab engine, licence built Rools Royce Avon.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by chunder

Does anyne know if they are still involved with airplane motors, I believe they licence built engines for teh Swedish air force?

Certainly the old Viggen had a Saab engine, licence built Rools Royce Avon.

The Saab Aerospace company is a completely different company, but it does still exist. It produces fighter jets for the Swedish Air Force. It used to the parent company of the automobile arm until GM bought it (and Scania-Vabis) out in 1990.

Saab Automobile AB has never built aero engines as far as I know, apart from when it was all part of the Saab Aeroplan AB in the 1930s and 40s.

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by chunder

Certainly the old Viggen had a Saab engine, licence built Rools Royce Avon.

It had a Volvo RM8, a licence-built Pratt & Whitney JT8D. The SAAB aircraft which used the Svenska Flygmotor-built Avon were the Lansen & Draken.

Svenska Flygmotor was originally part of SAAB, but Volvo acquired a majority holding in 1941 - the company is now known as Volvo Flygmotor.

[garcon]

Back to Saab cars, I wouldn't be tempted by any final sell off deals on new or recent cars if I were you. Dealers have been told to get rid of stock at cost, as seen. With NO warranty.

I suppose if they get really cheap you could buy two - and keep one for spares.

[mountainstar]

The problem with the new 9-5's is not many of them were made and I'm sure parts are going to be an issue. I wouldn't want to lay out $30,000 for a new car that you can't get parts for.

With the older GM ones, at least here in the USA, there are Saab dismantlers and part specialists you can get just about anything from.