V8 SuperTourers Round 3 - Pics/Results/Rumour

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Lap times on a cold dry-ish track in the high 1:04's, on a warm day would likely see another second off that so not too bad. I really miss the old back straight though!
!

Goat Boy,

Just checked Natsoft's results for this years V8SC Pukekohe round and Winterbottom lap record 1.3.76 was set after he pitted and stuck 2 new rear tyres [following his rear left hand side tyre failure] in near perfect bone dry track conditions. When you compare Murphy's new V8ST lap record of 1.4.85 set in race 3 in cold conditions with water streaming over the track in the front straight, its only a tenth over 1 second difference between the fastest V8SC lap time and the fastest V8ST time, our cars cost less than half the cost, and on the same track under identical conditions would probably be less than .5 of a second of their cars.

Pretty dam impressive even if I do say so myself.

I better duck now because the haters will be baying for blood, any second now!

[HProject]

Got through my last SuperTourer images of the weekend this morning

















Full set for those interested can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...5072430&type=1

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Goat Boy,

Just checked Natsoft's results for this years V8SC Pukekohe round and Winterbottom lap record 1.3.76 was set after he pitted and stuck 2 new rear tyres [following his rear left hand side tyre failure] in near perfect bone dry track conditions. When you compare Murphy's new V8ST lap record of 1.4.85 set in race 3 in cold conditions with water streaming over the track in the front straight, its only a tenth over 1 second difference between the fastest V8SC lap time and the fastest V8ST time, our cars cost less than half the cost, and on the same track under identical conditions would probably be less than .5 of a second of their cars.

Pretty damn impressive even if I do say so myself.

I better duck now because the haters will be baying for blood, any second now!

That is impressive!

I was also impressed at the number of people who opted for the $45 lunch in the members' stand - next time I will do that too if it is on offer, by far the best seats in the house!

[promax]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Goat Boy,

Just checked Natsoft's results for this years V8SC Pukekohe round and Winterbottom lap record 1.3.76 was set after he pitted and stuck 2 new rear tyres [following his rear left hand side tyre failure] in near perfect bone dry track conditions. When you compare Murphy's new V8ST lap record of 1.4.85 set in race 3 in cold conditions with water streaming over the track in the front straight, its only a tenth over 1 second difference between the fastest V8SC lap time and the fastest V8ST time, our cars cost less than half the cost, and on the same track under identical conditions would probably be less than .5 of a second of their cars.

Pretty dam impressive even if I do say so myself.

I better duck now because the haters will be baying for blood, any second now!

the haters could bring up that a much cheaper TLX with less power, less tyre and a lot less development miles on it.. is only a second and a half slower than a ST if they wanted too not that i'm hating or a hater

I didn't think there is a huge difference in lap times between the new V8SC and the old V8SC. wasn't safety, cost and more even racing .. the reason they changed to their COTF?

[promax]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Laugh of the weekend, once foggys car was destroyed they repaired it, then he went off in the next race and gased it up and snaked it up into the wall to have a dnf.

did he pick up some bad habits from the drift boys.. or doesn't he like his Holden anymore and is planning to re-body it?

[nistfan]

Originally Posted by HProject

Got through my last SuperTourer images of the weekend this morning

















Full set for those interested can be seen here: http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...5072430&type=1

Looking at those she (LHS) already has a Full Set IMO

[socram]

Originally Posted by nistfan

Looking at those she (LHS) already has a Full Set IMO

You may think that but we couldn't possibly comment...

[JAFA851]

Originally Posted by nistfan

Looking at those she (LHS) already has a Full Set IMO

Haha right on!!!

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by promax

the haters could bring up that a much cheaper TLX with less power, less tyre and a lot less development miles on it.. is only a second and a half slower than a ST if they wanted too not that i'm hating or a hater

OK Promax,
V8ST have sold 22 complete Car Kits, that includes every nut and bolt, including the rivets. The complete chassis is epoxy primed and every joint sealed, painted in your colour of choice for $205K plus gst.

Not one of those 22 owners can put their hand on the bible and tell you that they have paid V8ST more than that amount, in fact many early adopters paid less than this amount, because the engine originally didnt have the new Dailey Dry system, etc. You can even delete the chassis painting, and save another $6,500 if you want to get it done yourself. You assemble all the bits and paint the outside panels and that cost what ever you are happy to pay if you chose not to do it your self.

So that's the facts, not rumour, on the cost of a V8ST car.

You are obviously very well connected in TLX 'land', so please tell us all what what it cost for all the parts you need to build a TLX spec Ford FG Falcon, a Toyota Camry, and finally the bargain basement Holden VE Commodore.

I am well aware of the fact that Toyota NZ heavily subsidised the engines, which would normally be US$75K each, I am also aware of what it cost Andrew McKensie for his Ford engine, ECU, calibration and engine loom.

Now to the subject you raised about value based respective Lap times. In Saturday mornings only dry practise, Scott Mclaughlan ran on second hand rubber, and did a 1.4.25.

The fastest TLX time over all the weekend with great weather each day was Jason Bargwanna's qualifying time of 1.6.37. I very much doubt the Bargs was on an old set of rubber, so given the rest of the V8ST's weekend weather was **** the very closest Bargwanna's TLX Commodore, got to Mclaughlan's V8ST Commodore was 2.1 seconds.

[Swedish Brick]

Distracted much


I have to say they were faster than I expected given times around other tracks. But of all tracks Puke is the one they would get closest. Be interesting to see the difference around a more handling based track.

Previously I had been wondering why suddenly a huge portion of puke was now dangerous due to water issues when the only major earth works is the new section on the back straight. It sort of sounded like sour grapes TBH. No one had actually said why, now I see the new barriers have created drainage issues. That is very poor indeed. I hope either it's being exaggerated, or plans are afoot to fix it asap. Maybe it could be fixed cheaply with some gutters outside the barriers directing it to existing drains? I don't know, depends whats there and if it can easily be tapped in to.

[Swedish Brick]

That said Mark the fact still remains I found 3 TLXs cars racing close together a lot more entertaining than the processions of ST's I have watched.

Rather 3 close fought than 20 follow the leaders.
Having said that I haven't seen any footage from puke yet so maybe they managed some passing and close fought battles this time out.

[promax]

calm down Mark lol I wasn't getting into a ****ing match with you since the cars aren't in direct competition to each other and are built to two different sets of rules.. it hardly matters what the other runs. it's not they'll be on the same track together

btw I believe Ross was the fastest TLX with a 1:06.4 .. not Bargwanna. and the time was set in a race.. not qualifying.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

That said Mark the fact still remains I found 3 TLXs cars racing close together a lot more entertaining than the processions of ST's I have watched.

Rather 3 close fought than 20 follow the leaders.
Having said that I haven't seen any footage from puke yet so maybe they managed some passing and close fought battles this time out.

I guess you can't have watched a lot of ST races then - I have been to several ST events and have never found the racing processional - although when you get cars that are essentially the same with capable drivers in them it won't be that easy to get by, especially at somewhere like Taupo or Ruapuna where there are not many opportunities - Taupo was a 'mare for A1GP as I recall too.

Puke and HD are great to spectate at as the cars can pass in lots of places and you get a good view of the circuit in both.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by promax

calm down Mark lol I wasn't getting into a ****ing match with you since the cars aren't in direct competition to each other and are built to two different sets of rules.. it hardly matters what the other runs. it's not they'll be on the same track together

btw I believe Ross was the fastest TLX with a 1:06.4 .. not Bargwanna. and the time was set in a race.. not qualifying.

Promax, I did not think you were, and I am very far from "hot under the collar"

I used the fastest times recorded by the official timing system's to try to match up comparable track conditions, between the two categories, as anybody who was at Pukekohe on Saturday and Sunday will no doubt agree, other than Saturday morning, Conditions were far from ideal.

I spoke at length to SVG on both days, and he believes that having driven one of the fastest COFT cars at Pukekohe in ideal conditions, that in comparable conditions there would be very little difference between the two.

More interesting was the fact that he also said that after 30 laps he and Murph were still able to lap consistently in very low 5's even in yesterdays cold and damp conditions, something the COFT car on its softer Dunlop tyres could not do in ideal conditions only six weeks ago.

My real point is, and I think you know that, that at last we have an affordable New Zealand alternative to the Australian V8 Supercars at way less than half the price, and this fact should be celebrated.

[NZSTfan]

Its taken me a while to post as I have been on the road straight after the racing at Puke, and now I am in Wanaka where it is a whopping 1Degc as I write, but threatening to lower to minus 7!!

Anyway, some shout outs first:

Jack Kofoed, really enjoyed watching you race this weekend, and I am VERY glad that I decided to sponsor you, even though it was only a small amount. You exceeded my expectations as a sponsor, 2 podiums and a 4th. Also your choice of not qualifying to save your wets was a good move, and it showed in race one when you started from the back and ended up P3. To other business owners out there the V8CC series is one where you get serious bang for your bucks. Cant say enough good things about JKR.

HProject - as always great pics that really show the weekend in its entirety. I for one appreciate you getting out there (in the miserable weather) and catching these fantastic shots.

Now we attended both days, and yes I have to say it was an odd weekend of racing. I think the safety car and recovery vehicles did more laps than the cars!! But by Sunday my weather predictions had panned out (minus the wind) and it was mostly dry running except for the River Nile crossing the track just over the hill.

I still don't get Puke though. I know it has a touch of history about it, but to me it has a touch of mange about it. Sure the track is cool, but a little dated and quite frankly dangerous. The grandstand still feels like a cheap affair, and putting the dead pigeon that had been pulled part by rats (presumably) aside the stands are pretty awful. I'd love to know how the 6.5 mill got allocated to 'upgrade' the track and buildings.

But anyway, still was better than I thought with the weather that we had to endure. There were lots of people there, and the parking lots were chocker, and I enjoyed watching a V10 Audi R8 trying to get out on wet grass (not the white one blasting around the track, but one in the parking lot).

Whoever was on the music needs to be shot, as a horse racing PA does not have any bass, so the music was annoying, from my POV. But that's just my opinion.

The drivers need to get to grips with these cars as I hate seeing all of these wrecked ST's on the first lap. C'mon guys, at your level, you should know better!

Red flag after red flag made it challenging from a spectators POV, especially when the good 'ol tractor is heading down to the accident spot at 5kph. But they did get better at recovering vehicles as the weekend progressed. Practice makes perfect I guess.

Now, onto the speed comparison. Mark has beaten me to it, but it is plain to see that the ST is quite a race car. My calculations show that on average they were a second or so off the SC's, and has Mark has already pointed out, the SC weekend was perfect, round 3 of the ST's was far from it.

To compare the TLX in terms of speed is irrelevant in my view, although we all know (and have for some time) the TLX is far slower than the ST. And yes the ST costs a wee bit more (and in some cases I believe less than the TLX's - McKenzies ford is an example of that, but something I am sure that MRX will get on top of). But the ST's are the top V8 racing touring car category in NZ, no doubt about that. So certain people on here who try to bag this just look like complete doughnuts in their rhetoric. Don't forget that when the TLX's did puke, the fastest was a mid 1.06, but the slowest was pushing into the 1.08's. The V8CC cars this weekend were getting into the 1.10's, which is still faster than the TL's racing in the NZV8's at the same track, in trying conditions - must be the rubber I guess?

And Brickhead, I am glad that you were surprised by just how fast the ST's are, but to then claim that you prefer to watch 3 TLX's so-called 'competing' with each other is a joke. But it is your opinion, which you are entitled too. I am struggling to think of another series where 3 cars are competing with each other, but each to their own I guess. But you have 6 cars to look forward to this summer series, so maybe you will enjoy it even more

Only got to wait for 90 something days now for the next round. I would like to think that one day, the series will visit every track in NZ (both North and South Island) and will have less gaps in between events to keep the interest there.

Stoked for SVG getting his maiden wins too And Ant continues to impress.

That's my two pennies worth anyway

[Swedish Brick]

1: No need for the insult.
2:You misinterpret what I meant. Yeah 3 cars is not good enough. But the way those 3 behave on track and how close they can run through corners to each other, well if the STs could manage anything close to that I'd enjoy watching them. But they can't.
Like I said, rather 3 cars racing than 20 playing follow the leader. Touring car racing needs to be side by side, wheel to wheel stuff.

[NZSTfan]

1) Where did I insult you Brick? Don't try to make a mountain out of a mole hill
2) You clearly have not seen many (if any) ST races before. There is plenty of passing and you just cannot compare 3 cars with 20.

We'll just have to agree to disagree......move on

[Swedish Brick]

Brickhead. Not appreciated
Been to one round (and heard first hand the crowd complain and watched them leave) and watched several on TV. Usualy pattern is a scramble at the start, then a process of widening gaps and nothing else happening unless an off, a punt or a failure.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

1: No need for the insult.
2:You misinterpret what I meant. Yeah 3 cars is not good enough. But the way those 3 behave on track and how close they can run through corners to each other, well if the STs could manage anything close to that I'd enjoy watching them. But they can't.
Like I said, rather 3 cars racing than 20 playing follow the leader. Touring car racing needs to be side by side, wheel to wheel stuff.

And like I said Revhead, you have obviously not been to watch an ST event, or else you would not say that. But I guess you are not one for backing your assertions with facts.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Brickhead. Not appreciated
Been to one round (and heard first hand the crowd complain and watched them leave) and watched several on TV. Usualy pattern is a scramble at the start, then a process of widening gaps and nothing else happening unless an off, a punt or a failure.

You obviously didn't watch Manuell reel in car after car yesterday then. Great job he did.

I think you have an active imagination Warwick.

So what would you change to make identical cars race closer then?

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Brickhead. Not appreciated
Been to one round (and heard first hand the crowd complain and watched them leave) and watched several on TV. Usualy pattern is a scramble at the start, then a process of widening gaps and nothing else happening unless an off, a punt or a failure.

Warwick, surely you are not serious? You are basing your whole argument on the 1 round you attended?

If so

[Swedish Brick]

Originally Posted by Blackpearl

Warmick, surely you are not serious? You are basing your whole argument on the 1 round you attended?

If so

Did you miss the bit about watching several on TV?

Come on guys, the gang bang style the moment someone points out negatives against the STs is wearing very thin and is what got the forum locked down in the first place.

Now, if you insist on using some ones first name in a post I suggest it polite to use yours. Read the info at the very top of the page. Posting up peoples personal info is not at all cool. The only reason Petch didn't get a complaint about him the other day is his info was about 6 years old.

Using any name, or variation of the name you see over there <-- I will take as a purposely offensive post. Because you know full well that is how you intend it.

[Blackpearl]

Originally Posted by Swedish Brick

Did you miss the bit about watching several on TV?

Come on guys, the gang bang style the moment someone points out negatives against the STs is wearing very thin and is what got the forum locked down in the first place.

Now, if you insist on using some ones first name in a post I suggest it polite to use yours. Read the info at the very top of the page. Posting up peoples personal info is not at all cool. The only reason Petch didn't get a complaint about him the other day is his info was about 6 years old.

Using any name, or variation of the name you see over there <-- I will take as a purposely offensive post. Because you know full well that is how you intend it.

No did you also see the point about ban evaders etc being named and shamed? Appears that old notice is gone, did you read the one about not being a muppet and not giving away your details so easy?

[Swedish Brick]

Yes I did. No ban evading here.

[NZSTfan]

Brick, you do this to yourself mate

BTW 'Brickhead' is a culmination of the various guises you have had on this forum. When you got banned as Mr Revhead, and then appeared again as Swedish Brick, you could have just fessed up and people would probably have shown some level of respect towards you. But you didn't, says a lot about a bloke in my view.

But anyway, I will be the better man here and apologise to you if I have indeed offended you. But harden up mate, it can be a tough forum this one, and I have all sorts of things said about me - I have been labelled a cheer leader, president of the Mark Petch Fan club, ST Fan boy or just fanboy and a few others things that I can't be bothered to remember.

Anyway, lets not try to destroy HProjects thread, just like my thread got destroyed/locked the other day because of pointless banter chucked around by a certain group on here.

Like I said, move on, and it might pay to man-up a little bit