Barrichello to be replaced by pay driver? - Page 2

wnut · 3 Sep 2011, 01:55 (Ref:2950199)

When Williams announced their float Frank was on about how Bernie taught everyone how to make money out of F1 and how he loved reading the fonancial times.
The statements made there indicated to me that he was running the company with all the flaire of a liquidator and giving no thought to the racing team. Just taking as much money as they can out of the racing team.
As Jeremy said their inability, fiendish delight in sacking staff as to almost ensure lack of continuity, is hurting them badly. This year, Sam Michael and Barrichello plus who else?
Williams is a total dead end for a driver both Rosberg and Webber have been through Williams with a remarkable lack of distinction, and both are top line driver. Hulkenberg is a good youngster too.

To put your newby in there without a team leader, and no engineering continuity - you must be joking.
The only reason you would do it is as a stop gap measure to gain F1 experience, the Minardi option, then you would want a bargain deal and enough money to move on next season.

wnut · 3 Sep 2011, 01:59 (Ref:2950200)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam43

I don't think Rubens is what Williams need either.

I tend to agree, but who would you put in the car if you were trying to create a front runner again?
Who would come?

JeremySmith · 3 Sep 2011, 02:04 (Ref:2950203)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

I tend to agree, but who would you put in the car if you were trying to create a front runner again?
Who would come?

How about Nico Hülkenberg..This kid is so good come on Frank own up....

If you are lost at sea, then......

Your car is not very good is it!

wnut · 3 Sep 2011, 02:09 (Ref:2950204)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

How about Nico Hülkenberg..This kid is so good come on Frank own up....

If you are lost at sea, then......

Your car is not very good is it!

Good choice, he may at least know where Barrichello thought he could improve the car! Keep Maldanado and you may keep what you learned this year.
Keep Sam Michael too if possible!

JeremySmith · 3 Sep 2011, 02:15 (Ref:2950206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Good choice, he may at least know where Barrichello thought he could improve the car! Keep Maldanado and you may keep what you learned this year.

Keep Sam Michael too if possible!

I have to agree with you Sam Michael is just not the problem, come on now AT&T William's get a grasp on the situation..

wnut · 3 Sep 2011, 02:24 (Ref:2950207)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I have to agree with you Sam Michael is just not the problem, come on now AT&T William's get a grasp on the situation..

From what I understand, Williams Engineering revolves around Sam Michael and he just has too damn much to do.
Supporting him and enhancing areas where he is weak would seem to be the way to go.
Getting rid of him would be a bit like shooting yourself in the head!

**Adam43** · 3 Sep 2011, 15:11 (Ref:2950310)

Head. I suspect Williams has always been like that, but Head coped with it.

?

VIVA GT · 3 Sep 2011, 15:45 (Ref:2950315)

Sadly, Williams Grand Prix Engineering is not the Team that it used to be. It's been making a slow decline from Hero to Zero for many years now and this is yet just another indication of that fact.
Unfortunately I see them going the same sad way of Tyrell, Brabham, (Real) Team Lotus and so on...

**chunterer** · 3 Sep 2011, 18:36 (Ref:2950361)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

From what I understand, Williams Engineering revolves around Sam Michael and he just has too damn much to do.
Supporting him and enhancing areas where he is weak would seem to be the way to go.
Getting rid of him would be a bit like shooting yourself in the head!

Williams have hardly made the most of their facilities the last few years though have they, that tends to suggest the engineering/technical direction hasn't worked....

Sam Michael hasn't made a significant impact in his current role. But whether the changes work in another matter.

**Peter Mallett** · 3 Sep 2011, 18:40 (Ref:2950363)

I thought Sam Michael was leaving.

JeremySmith · 3 Sep 2011, 19:04 (Ref:2950370)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

I thought Sam Michael was leaving.

Yes he is Peter, and the end of the season I believe...

sizzle · 4 Sep 2011, 02:02 (Ref:2950560)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

When Williams announced their float

Wonder how many investors there are who are reconsidering?
What is their share price now compared to when they floated?

Lotusonpole · 4 Sep 2011, 07:39 (Ref:2950590)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marbot

You're a genius!

Jacques Villeneuve!

What again?

**bjohnsonsmith** · 4 Sep 2011, 13:56 (Ref:2950698)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

If he leaves, as he said once before, he will go to Brazilian Stock Cars, which is currently the top level category there.

At least that puts an end to any speculation as to where Rubens is going post F1.

mountainstar · 4 Sep 2011, 19:52 (Ref:2950834)

Quote:

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sadly, Williams Grand Prix Engineering is not the Team that it used to be. It's been making a slow decline from Hero to Zero for many years now and this is yet just another indication of that fact.
Unfortunately I see them going the same sad way of Tyrell, Brabham, (Real) Team Lotus and so on...

It didn't seem that long ago to me, Williams was one of the elite teams that was a regular race winner.

I think where they went wrong unlike McLaren, was they didn't take care of their people. McLaren has always done a good job of identifying worthy people and then finding ways of keeping them. Some key people work for McLaren for decades and Williams has never managed that.

To me the turning point was when they exchanged Hill for Frentzen. And they have been on a slide ever since.

Williams is diversifying into road car R&D and other specialized manufacturing.

Barrichello I think will be in demand for someone as a reserve/test driver. So probably he can hang on for a few more years before the end.

I doubt he will go to the irl, the big money days are over and that series is in a terminal decline, not to mention being dangerous with flighty cars, poor driving talent and horrifying driving standards and rules.

JeremySmith · 4 Sep 2011, 20:01 (Ref:2950842)

Ruben's will have a good end, if you can call it that..

wnut · 4 Sep 2011, 22:43 (Ref:2950906)

Barrichello could provide valuable input to Lotus, HRT and maybe a couple of others. I would rate him as considerably better than either the Lotus drivers.

wnut · 4 Sep 2011, 22:53 (Ref:2950908)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It didn't seem that long ago to me, Williams was one of the elite teams that was a regular race winner.

I think where they went wrong unlike McLaren, was they didn't take care of their people. McLaren has always done a good job of identifying worthy people and then finding ways of keeping them. Some key people work for McLaren for decades and Williams has never managed that.

To me the turning point was when they exchanged Hill for Frentzen. And they have been on a slide ever since.

.

You are absolutely on the money here, when they dumped Hill they dumped a leading driver and an excellent test and development driver in one stroke. This in turn lead to Adrian Newey who did not want to see Hill leave deciding to leave, and we all know how well that worked out.

Does anyone know where Sam Michael is headed?

JeremySmith · 5 Sep 2011, 14:17 (Ref:2951206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

You are absolutely on the money here, when they dumped Hill they dumped a leading driver and an excellent test and development driver in one stroke. This in turn lead to Adrian Newey who did not want to see Hill leave deciding to leave, and we all know how well that worked out.

Does anyone know where Sam Michael is headed?

I think Sam Michael will go to Virgin..

Mekola · 5 Sep 2011, 14:20 (Ref:2951210)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wnut

Barrichello could provide valuable input to Lotus, HRT and maybe a couple of others. I would rate him as considerably better than either the Lotus drivers.

As is for the qualify of their drivers, I won't be surprised if Rubens turns to Caterham next year...

**bella** · 5 Sep 2011, 20:16 (Ref:2951362)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeremySmith

I think Sam Michael will go to Virgin..

virgin already have pat symonds really as the figurehead of their operation. i can't see him and symonds working particularly well together! too many cooks and all that...

JeremySmith · 5 Sep 2011, 20:38 (Ref:2951371)

Quote:

Originally Posted by bella

virgin already have pat symonds really as the figurehead of their operation. i can't see him and symonds working particularly well together! too many cooks and all that...

That is right bella, I had forgotten that...

p-matt · 5 Sep 2011, 21:19 (Ref:2951388)

Sam Michael has been linked to Force India as well. Seems more plausible to me, given that Symonds has his feet under the table at Virgin.

wnut · 5 Sep 2011, 22:49 (Ref:2951420)

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-matt

Sam Michael has been linked to Force India as well. Seems more plausible to me, given that Symonds has his feet under the table at Virgin.

Force India is becoming a very impressive operation. Next RBR?
It would be an interesting partnership. Hopefully both Force and Sam benefit.

JeremySmith · 5 Sep 2011, 23:07 (Ref:2951425)

Quote:

Originally Posted by p-matt

Sam Michael has been linked to Force India as well. Seems more plausible to me, given that Symonds has his feet under the table at Virgin.

I think you are spot on there, I had forgotten about Pat Symonds, who I have a lot of respect for from and engineering point of view..

The other stuff well.....

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