Group A or V8 Supercars? (Merged)

[FAS33]

I seen one clip of this series and almost felt asleep watching the slowmoblies going round the track, (except Bathurst) I mean I couldve drove my car on the grid and and kept up with the pack. so many times in history the media seem to portray that this was the REAL DRIVERS championship and only the best could be in it. (just like any other series) I dunno bout you guys but although the cars wouldnt of been easy to drive, I still think it was just a sunday drive sort of series, and these Legends were quite some age, so maybe they wouldnt of been as quick when they were younger,so maybe that would've made it seem like they werent going fast? or because the cars were closer to production?

[formerf1champ]

Oh, here we go!

[GTRMagic]

If I answer "NO", do you think it will stop discussion?

[peckstar]

ok i'll bite

personally enjoyed group A.

I have found though that once we moved to the V8s the group i take to bathurst increased and now we get a good size group every year. where as under Group A in the end it was just me and for two years I took a rookie mate. Now we get ten or so every year.

[MitchZ06]

Ofcourse it's overrated, Jamie Whincup wasn't racing back then!

Slowmobiles? Your beloved Godzilla with all it's 650hp AWD prowess isn't a slowmobile. FML.....

[peckstar]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Ofcourse it's overrated, Jamie Whincup wasn't racing back then!

Slowmobiles? Your beloved Godzilla with all it's 650hp AWD prowess isn't a slowmobile. FML.....

just saying more hp than a v8 and in theory more traction. but 6 seconds slower than a current v8. I would have to say they were overrated then based on that

[MitchZ06]

No aero doesn't help....

[DAVID PATERSON]

I think Group A was under rated.

For the only time in it's history, the ATCC and Bathurst 1000 were run to the same rules as the ETCC, BTCC, JTCC , DTM etc. How awesome is that? The whole world singing from the same song sheet, local accents aside. The cars were closely related to what you see in the showrooms and you could compare one model with another. There were different classes, so little cars and big cars were all in together, mixing it up.

It wasn't perfect, the 500 sporting evolutions rule was a rather large loophole and they never figured out how to get parity between turbos and atmos, but i can't think of another flaw.

I'm astounded by the suggestion that they were slow. I recently accepted the role of custodian of Group A lap records for Australian tracks, so i am reallly keen to hear what is the best lap time on any Australian circuit of any keyboard hero in his street car. I will then produce the Group A lap records on that circuit, for comparison.

[Woolley]

I think the initial post mis-undertands the relationship between speed and entertainment. If pure speed is all it needs, then we'd all be at drag racing.

Group A could race, they weren't locked to the road like Skalextric and the mixture of cars had different strengths at weaknesses at parts of the track or during a stint.

One of the first races I ever attended was ETCC at Donington Park in '84 or '85 (not sure which). A bunch of Rover V8s, BMW 635CSis, Volvo 240 turbos, loads of smaller class Alfas and Escorts, an RX7 etc were certainly not dull and were a real handful down the Craner Curves.

Personally, from watching a car through a couple of corners I can't tell if it's 6 seconds a lap slower, but I can tell the driver is working hard to acheive that lap-time, and a car that looks as if it's being driven on the edge is far more interesting than one that's just glued to the road.

Grp A did have some significant rule problems, both interpretation and enforcement, but it was definitely good to watch. Just watch the Walkinshaw Jaguar's Bathurst qualifying lap and then try to convince me that a V8SC is better than that. If you think it is, you have no soul.

[davyboy]

Group A was fantastic ! Not only could you enjoy battles for victory up and down the field... the cars themselves were interesting too as they were a genuine reflection of what was on the road. As a spectacle, it was incredible. I feel privileged to have seen so many of these races in the flesh. Is it better than the current spec. series ? I don't know... both have their merit... but was it crap, hell no way !

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by peckstar

just saying more hp than a v8 and in theory more traction. but 6 seconds slower than a current v8. I would have to say they were overrated then based on that

6 sec slower than a 2012 supercar or a 1993 supercar?

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by MitchZ06

Ofcourse it's overrated, Jamie Whincup wasn't racing back then!

Slowmobiles? Your beloved Godzilla with all it's 650hp AWD prowess isn't a slowmobile. FML.....

wasn't refering about that one. but you'll find back then, it was a bit quicker then the rest of the field, AWD and Turbo's ftw

[Axeman444]

i think at the time, because they were up there with the fastest cars at the time, then they were spectacular.

The problem is for people who have only come into the motorsport scene in the V8SC era and are now looking back via Youtube etc, compare the speed the V8SC's are capable of to the Grp A & Grp C, then the Grp A & Grp C cars look slow, but at the time they definitely were not

[Oran Park Forever]

"Naive"- showing a lack of experience, wisdom or judgement.

Oxford Dictionary


.

[Trev Campbell]

Originally Posted by Woolley

I think the initial post mis-undertands the relationship between speed and entertainment. If pure speed is all it needs, then we'd all be at drag racing.

Group A could race, they weren't locked to the road like Skalextric and the mixture of cars had different strengths at weaknesses at parts of the track or during a stint.

One of the first races I ever attended was ETCC at Donington Park in '84 or '85 (not sure which). A bunch of Rover V8s, BMW 635CSis, Volvo 240 turbos, loads of smaller class Alfas and Escorts, an RX7 etc were certainly not dull and were a real handful down the Craner Curves.

Personally, from watching a car through a couple of corners I can't tell if it's 6 seconds a lap slower, but I can tell the driver is working hard to acheive that lap-time, and a car that looks as if it's being driven on the edge is far more interesting than one that's just glued to the road.

Grp A did have some significant rule problems, both interpretation and enforcement, but it was definitely good to watch. Just watch the Walkinshaw Jaguar's Bathurst qualifying lap and then try to convince me that a V8SC is better than that. If you think it is, you have no soul.

Nailed it !!!!

[rich07]

Originally Posted by FAS33

I seen one clip of this series and almost felt asleep watching the slowmoblies going round the track, (except Bathurst) I mean I couldve drove my car on the grid and and kept up with the pack. so many times in history the media seem to portray that this was the REAL DRIVERS championship and only the best could be in it. (just like any other series) I dunno bout you guys but although the cars wouldnt of been easy to drive, I still think it was just a sunday drive sort of series, and these Legends were quite some age, so maybe they wouldnt of been as quick when they were younger,so maybe that would've made it seem like they werent going fast? or because the cars were closer to production?

You rave on about how good the GTR was/is and then you come out with this pearl-your not helping people to take you seriously here mate.

I may have not been into motorsport when GrpA was around but I find watching videos of it quite interesting, the cars are all different and they move around more then the V8s. I dont really care about the speed comparisons, twenty years of technology advances will take care of that plus GTs are faster then both of them

[Stand21]

Originally Posted by Oran Park Forever

"Naive"- showing a lack of experience, wisdom or judgement.

Oxford Dictionary


.

Hehe.....classic!

[Samwhk]

I started watching Bathurst and the ATCC (when it was broadcast here in NZ) plus the wonderful Welly race with the old man and his mates when I was 4, the hey day of Grp A. Now obviously, I was too young to soak it all in, but I loved the cars, had my heros, and still watch religiously to this day. I still watch the old races too (thanks to Patrick Sobbel who has amazing amounts of 80's & 90's stuff on DVD) and good old You Tube).
Grp A was not over rated, it was just a different era, and a different type of race. I love the variety, the relevance to road going models and the more candid nature of the drivers and owners back then.
Today, I love the speed, proffessionalism and presentation of V8SC.
Apples & oranges.

[sollitt]

Originally Posted by FAS33

... I mean I couldve drove my car on the grid and and kept up with the pack.

There are names for people who make this kind of statement.

[Reload]

Originally Posted by sollitt

There are names for people who make this kind of statement.

Ten d..ks, because you can,t be that stupid pulling one ?

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by FAS33

I mean I couldve drove my car on the grid and and kept up with the pack.

..........not just kept up with the pack FAS, you would've won the race too!

[RedZedMikey]

So, FAS, are you out their trolling for a reply from us or what? Not one of your better posts.

Originally Posted by FAS33

I seen one clip of this series

To start with, try a sample greater than one! And have you ever been to a race meet? Real life speed is different to TV speed.

Originally Posted by FAS33

watching the slowmoblies

Group A lap record at Phillip Island is 1:43. Yes, that is 10 seconds slower than V8SC, but it is 4 sec faster than Group C which preceded it. Most things have got faster and better with time, why should motor racing be any different? Usain Bolt is faster than Carl Lewis, perhaps you could also have kept up with Carl on the run to school?

Originally Posted by FAS33

I mean I couldve drove my car on the grid and and kept up with the pack

OK then. What circuits have you done track days at, and what were your times, I'd be interested to know?

Originally Posted by FAS33

these Legends were quite some age, so maybe they wouldnt of been as quick when they were younger

Yeah, quite some age. Seton as a teenager up the top of Bathurst in the wet, not sure if that was the DR30 or HR31. Skaifey was in his low-mid twenties steering the R32. Funnily enough, much like today - a mix of great young drivers showcasing their talents, some middle of the road guys, and some legends 'of age' more than capable of taking it to all of them. Bernd Schneider is 48 - how quick would he have been when he was younger??? It was you saying how good he was wasn't it?

Originally Posted by FAS33

I think Bernd schnider , or whatever that german guys name is, was just in another league to everyone else

Yes it was.

Just accept that in its day Group A was an interesting series; the cars were fast; the drivers were good - and were battling hard. Perhaps a little less of the keyboard warrior please?

[DangerousMomentsHere]

For the time..

GroupA was awesome in Australia.

Im a 25y.o New Zealander and i can't get enough of watching the Group A era. Great looking cars and driven very well by great keen drivers.
Each with huge pro's and con's on the track, overtaking everywhere.
Fantastic stuff. God what happened to In-cab commentary?, Was watching a clip of Dick Johnson in aviator sunglasses,arm on the window. steering 620+HP in one arm and telling jokes while whistling past a 4WS Nissan.

Every single moment of the GroupA era was absolutely golden in my eyes

[FAS33]

Originally Posted by rich07

You rave on about how good the GTR was/is and then you come out with this pearl-your not helping people to take you seriously here mate.

I may have not been into motorsport when GrpA was around but I find watching videos of it quite interesting, the cars are all different and they move around more then the V8s. I dont really care about the speed comparisons, twenty years of technology advances will take care of that plus GTs are faster then both of them

a 20 yr old F1 car would destroy your GT's

[peckstar]

FAS. The group A's were good, just like Space invaders was the best video game ever when it came out. I only think spade invaders is over rated when i compare it to todays games, but I had awesome times playing back in the 80's with all my mates, just like i had awesome times watching group A's

Probably though, I look back on Groups C's more fondly as they better represeneted what i could saw on the road