Driver height in FF/FR/F3?

[Jape]

Search results gave only one topic about drivers height and that was for F1 cars only, but I'm interested in this issue regarding to different formulae, so:

I have been wondering for years, what might be the max. drivers height that driver can still fit comfortably to cars like FF, FR or F3 and that it does not effect to air intake, rollcage savety limits / savety in general, handling of the steering wheels, pedals and so on?

Are there differences in cockpit sizes of these cars, depending from the manufacturer or years model, for example comparing the 90's models to 00 models (in FF/FR/F3)?

How about feet, what can be the max. size of feet, still to drive without any problems? I remember that in the past some drivers even cut their driving shoes from the end to get those fit to cockpit.

[ss_collins]

As a tall chap who likes taking fast cars round tracks I can tell you theres a lot of variety. A Lotus T127 for example is too small for me (just) but a Red Bull RB7 is not. Its a case of try them for size, the size of your bum is a factor too (not a problem for me luckily!).

In other words there is not one simple answer to your question!

[funformula]

I´m 6ft´5inches and fitting in a formula car is always a hard task.
It depends on how you want to sit in your car. I prefer to sit as low as possible in my cars what means that my legs are very bent and the knees are in a very high position. Therefore the dash bulkhead of the car must give enough room which istn´t the case by most of the cars from the 60´s and 70´s
I know fellow racers shorter than me but sitting far higher in the car. They may have no bruises after a race but I always find it a bit strange looking.

My RF90 VanDiemen was really comfortable as was my RF82. On the other hand the 1982 Lola FF1600 was VERY tight and I couldn´t manage to keep my head below the roll hoop.
I think that a spaceframe formula car from the mid 90´s onwards should always fit.
Carbon fibre monocoques from the early days (mid 80´s onwards) until the mid 90´s are also not so comfortable. I found it hard to fit in my Reynard 913 but after some work on the dash bulkhead it´s ok now. Not as good as in the RF90 but ok.
The Dallara F3 from 1993 onwards seem to offer enough space for larger drivers too. Alex Wurz and Oliver Gavin are sitting very low in them and both guys are tall.

Your hips are a factor too (ask Nigel Mansell )
It was not possible for me to fit in an Arrows A8 because it was too tight in that area for me and NO I´m not overweight, I have more or less the stature of Webber/Wurz/Gavin.
But on spaceframe chassis there should be no problem in that case. The same for all the modern carbon fibre cars. They are all wide enough to accomodate even "Jabba the Hutt"

[ss_collins]

Some older tube frame cars are an issue - the 1965 Beach FV I used to own was just way too short. Whilst my 1968 Austro-Porsche fit like a glove.

Caterham road cars - no chance. Caterham SP300.R - fairly tight but driveable.

Nissan Leaf NISMO RC - HUGE. If you are small I dunno how you would drive it.

Panoz DP03 (IMSA lite) with seat removed - just fine.

[striker98]

1m89 and fitting in a Van Diemen FR98. Changed the pedal box to max front position.

[GolddustMini]

there is much more space in modern (mid 2000's) van diemen formula ford than there is in an equivelent age mygale.

[goughy]

I am 6ft 2" and have driven formula ford, formula Renault and F3 (2006 chassis).

Cannot recall having too many problems, formula Renault/f3 actually gave me the most room because it was tub rather than a tubular chassis. In all cases always sat stright into the floor and had the pedals on their legal limit.

Of all the formula fords would say the post 2000 van dimen was the roomiest, placing of the bulkhead and front shocks really made a difference between all the different chassis. For example in a 93 swift I could feel the font dampers moving up and down against my knees which was not the best feeling. A van diemen rf78 was a real tight fit with a very low bulkhead.

When you are tall you just learn to squeeze in and be uncomfortable!

[PRS RH01]

Most pre82 formula fords will take a driver of 6foot plus . My own PRS will and has taken a 6.4 and 20 stone driver but as pointed out above you do have to take the seat out and sit on the floor and move the pedals forward .

[Jape]

Based to these comments it seems that VanDiemen is the choice for long drivers. Is there any reason behind why VanDiemen started to make bigger cars than their competitors? Further more, is there how big difference, for example FF VanDiemens from 1995 model comparing to 2005 model, or can we say that always the newer is bigger? I think that some of the 90's Swifts looks great from outside, but so it seems that Swifts are smaller than VanDiemens. Was this the case through whole 90's? Quite interesting that there is differences between manucfacturers. Comments from any other manufacturers / models?

It is nice to hear that driver even 6ft 9inches can fit to some cars with low driving position if needed and especially F393 > (any differences between Dallaras different year models from 1993 onwards?), Tatuus FR2.0, etc should work. I quess all drivers should sit as low as possible, but still I've seen some pictures for example from FR2.0 drivers whose helmets go in front of air intake, but maybe they have just adapted some other seat position or haven't taken care about this issue properly.

Is there some regulation how much lower the highest point of the helmet should be from the roll hoop? Or how front pedal box can be located?

I guess that the hip area can be quite limiting too, since I'm not overweight either, but my hip bones are big and for me it is hard to find suitable seats for karting purposes for example.

[GolddustMini]

Originally Posted by Jape

Based to these comments it seems that VanDiemen is the choice for long drivers. Is there any reason behind why VanDiemen started to make bigger cars than their competitors? Further more, is there how big difference, for example FF VanDiemens from 1995 model comparing to 2005 model, or can we say that always the newer is bigger? I think that some of the 90's Swifts looks great from outside, but so it seems that Swifts are smaller than VanDiemens. Was this the case through whole 90's? Quite interesting that there is differences between manucfacturers. Comments from any other manufacturers / models?

It is nice to hear that driver even 6ft 9inches can fit to some cars with low driving position if needed and especially F393 > (any differences between Dallaras different year models from 1993 onwards?), Tatuus FR2.0, etc should work. I quess all drivers should sit as low as possible, but still I've seen some pictures for example from FR2.0 drivers whose helmets go in front of air intake, but maybe they have just adapted some other seat position or haven't taken care about this issue properly.

Is there some regulation how much lower the highest point of the helmet should be from the roll hoop? Or how front pedal box can be located?

I guess that the hip area can be quite limiting too, since I'm not overweight either, but my hip bones are big and for me it is hard to find suitable seats for karting purposes for example.

most championship regs will specify a distance between the helmet and an imaginary line drawn between the main and dashboard roll hoops.

soles of feet must be behind the front axle line in all modern racing cars but i cant remember when this rule was brought in

[Jape]

I'd be pleased still to see some more driver experiences / comments from different formulae cars. Please, remember to mention your height and car type / year model.

[McMuttley]

5' 6" 1970 Macon FF1600 (@85-90 kg feels very very tight)

The bloke who fixes the bits I break says it sounds like i cant reach the clutch pedal !

[bozla]

6ft 3, but I'm particularly long in the leg. I used to race a car called a 'formula enjoy' when I was back in Japan. I wanted to get a formula Vauxhall Junior back here but alas my shoulders were too wide.

[SAMD]

Originally Posted by bozla

6ft 3, but I'm particularly long in the leg. I used to race a car called a 'formula enjoy' when I was back in Japan. I wanted to get a formula Vauxhall Junior back here but alas my shoulders were too wide.

My wee fella is too big. I remember he got into my FF1600 once (RF86) and said "Oh man, this is it, and I fit too" until we went to get him out! and had to use the engine hoist! not recommended! His feet are the biggest problem though. He got into another single seater I have and his feet came up through the chassis. The pedal box would need remodelled.

[barnettracing]

I'm 6'1" and drive a Van Diemen BR001 (RF00-spec). Personally I find it pretty cramped. The chassis bulges out around the cockpit providing the illusion of space. However, they had to do this because the fuel tank bulkhead pushes the driver further forward than in previous years (a result of the heavy Zetec engine the car was designed for). This means the steering wheel is placed pretty close to the driver creating an 'elbows out' driving style.

Also, my legs are very bent; my knees practically rest behind the dashboard with the pedals as far forward as legally allowed.

As Goughy said though, when you are tall you just have to squeeze yourself in. Personally, I no longer feel uncomfortable in my car but it was a bit of a shock coming from a Van Diemen RF88 where your arms and legs are perfectly outstretched.

[McArthur252]

I'm 6ft 3 (1.9m) with size 11 feet and squeeze in to a Van Diemen '05. I have reasonable room, although i am sat on the floor and am not particularly comfortable. In regards to the feet issue, when i was first learning i found that every so often i was riding the clutch and occasionally was getting a big bite of throttle when going for the break, however it's something i've learnt not to do (probably for the best ). like heel and toe, it's just something you get used to.

have also driven Van Diemens '86, & 96, albeit briefly, and found that the 86 had the most room, and the 96 the least room. Presumably because of the bulky Zetec engine in the back.

[RobManser]

I'm 5'10", long in the leg and fairly slim (37" chest, 30" waist). Here are the single seaters that I've raced:

Van Diemen 1995 Formula Renault: I had to sit bolt upright due to the length of my legs, which was uncomfortable, although the width of the cockpit in terms of elbow room for driving was narrow but driveable. It's the widest cockpit of the three cars I'm listing here.

Ray 1999 Formula Ford: Narrower than the VD, and again I had to sit very upright, in this case so much so that the top of my helmet was above the roll hoop and my knees were jammed up against the chassis rail behind the steering wheel. Again, the cockpit was pretty narrow for elbow room.

Van Diemen 1998 Formula Ford: Much longer cockpit, so I could pretty much sit how I wanted in terms of being comfortably reclined, although the car was still quite narrow for elbow room. The biggest problem in this car was the pedal box, which was too narrow for me and I kept getting my right foot stuck on the throttle against the underside of the brake pedal, so at the end of a straight I'd go to lift my foot and it'd move a little and then release no further unless I untwisted my foot. I'm a wide size 9 shoe if that helps.

I reckon all of the above cost me around half a second in lap time purely through my inability to steer freely and the discomfort from how I had to sit. The '98 VD FF perhaps a second, because I had to wiggle my right foot free at the end of each straight to get on the brakes in time.

I'm currently looking at buying a Formula Renault 2.0 in the hope that the carbon tub will offer more room, and also being more modern as people are getting taller. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I've not sat in one yet.

[Bob Pearson]

I presume you mean the carbon chassied Formula Renault. I raced one for a season and found them quite spacious and I'm 2 inches taller than you. I don't think you will have a problem. the most confined cars I have found are the Tatuus FR's from the late 90's, but I could still drive them.

[Lanky Turtle]

I don't have any racing experience but I like to sit in racecars every now and then just to see how I fit and teams are usually ok with me sitting in their cars just for the novelty of seeing someone who's 6'6" getting in and out of there. I weigh about 200lbs. and am pretty bendy so have never had a real problem getting in or out of any of the cars (no motor hoists haha!).

I find that the outer dimensions of a car generally are not indicative of the cockpit space, but that could just be due to seating position. For example I fit fine in a Skip Barber formula car which is very small, but not in a GT1 Corvette, a Camaro, or a Porsche 962. A GT type car usually has more knee bending space, which is good, but Formula cars of any type always seem to have a longer cockpit. Think of Justin Wilson, who had to climb the open wheel racing ladder.

Any Formula car I've ever sat in, the main problem for me, as others have said, is the footbox always seems to be too small. For the Skip Barber school they said I'd have to drive without shoes on!

Now squeezing into a car, and managing to be able to safely get it around a track are two different things. One thing I find, even in street cars, is it's impossible to heel/toe when your knees are bent too much and your legs are crammed in there.

I've never sat in a race car that seemed "roomy" in any way. Even a big Daytona Prototype seems to have a similar cockpit space to a spec Miata to me, but again adjustments could probably be made to the seat and pedals to make them more accommodating.

[RobManser]

Originally Posted by Bob Pearson

I presume you mean the carbon chassied Formula Renault. I raced one for a season and found them quite spacious and I'm 2 inches taller than you. I don't think you will have a problem. the most confined cars I have found are the Tatuus FR's from the late 90's, but I could still drive them.

Great, thanks, that's good to know. Yes, I'm looking at a carbon tubbed Tatuus.