The cars that destroyed GT racing last time

[Bob Riebe]

A 3200 or Mustang wouldn't survive in GT1. The Maser has too small an engine, and the Mustang has too much drag (unless you do a Trans-Am car, which isn't allowed).

Saleen, given that they haven't provided "factory" support, I don't think could field an LMP on their own. Maserati itself is obviously at least somewhat limited by the whims of Alfa Romeo and the Fiat Group.

Besides, one of those extreme production cars wouldn't be a suitable basis for an LMP. Especially with the raised nose box, the prototype would end up looking substantially different from the road car with that requirement alone. Thus, such a proposal simply won't work in such a direct manner as you propose, and so you come back to doing an out and out prototype, which a number of those firms probably cannot produce on their own.

I've thought that the MC12 would make a fitting prototype if they just unballasted it, and maybe adjusted a few other things. However, with LMP rules as they are, it wouldn't come out right. A raised center of the nose, raised nose box, and front tray would completely distort the lines of the car. About the only supercar that I think your proposal would work well for is the Ferrari Enzo, but the ACO doesn't want formula cars with fenders, and Ferrari hasn't had a factory sportscar effort since 1973 (the 312/PB).

Purist, I believe you just whacked the nail on the head that points to why so few are wasting time with the current rules--the rules.

In GT, car builders do not like to be told how fast their cars can go, or how much horsepower their engnes are supposed to produce.
One reason: the Mustang even if they went hp for hp with Chevrolet, their aerodynamics would not allow them to lap as quickly, and the old fashioned method of producing hp power, or even a power curve, to make up for shortcomings--is banned.

In the prototype class, car builders do not want, besides the above, to be also told how they are supposed to build their cars by a suit sitting in a office.
Good show.

Bob

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

But wasn't the Toyota GT-One designed by the guy who's done the areo on the Pescarolo, and the Peugeot 905 and 908(by the way, the person in question was French!).

Paolo Catone was/is involved in de Peugeot 905 and 908.
Andre de Cortanze did the Toyota and Pescarolo (Catone designed the Courage C60, on which the Pescarolo is based).

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Purist

A 3200 or Mustang wouldn't survive in GT1. The Maser has too small an engine, and the Mustang has too much drag (unless you do a Trans-Am car, which isn't allowed).


).

That's why they should compete it GT2/3.

If you don't have a suitable car, choose another class.

Maserati had the resources to compete in P1, Saleen could, and did, compete in GT2 with the Mustang.

The MC12 was built from the ground up, based on the Enzo chassis, they could just as easily have built a P1 from scratch, in fact they would have done if the project was given the go ahead today.

Unfortunately for Saleen, the S7R is not in the spirit of future GT regs, so it's either a Mustang or new, ground up, P1.

[Purist]

I guess the issue I have with what you say Bob, is that there is no clear line. Any rules package tells the builders what to do and how to do it to some extent. Thus, what you say is not really quantifiable. Each of us draws that line of acceptable llimitations within the rules at a different point. The manufacturers are no different, and that line can change, depending on who's running the companies, and who's watching the races. You see the difficulty in all this I assume.

[Bob Riebe]

I guess the issue I have with what you say Bob, is that there is no clear line. Any rules package tells the builders what to do and how to do it to some extent. Thus, what you say is not really quantifiable. Each of us draws that line of acceptable llimitations within the rules at a different point. The manufacturers are no different, and that line can change, depending on who's running the companies, and who's watching the races. You see the difficulty in all this I assume.[

Only since at the latest the late nineties.
Before that they were told what they could not do, and those limits were basic and broad.

In the J car days they had to have a space where a official suitcase would fit, and that was all, they were not told how to do it.
Depending on year, the cockpit had to be large enough to fit X, they were not told how to do it.
NO TEAM, was EVER told HOW they MUST buuild X, Y, or Z.
IF X, Y, or Z was the limits, they were told it was, and it was up to the builder to build a car, within X, Y, or Z .
If it was a dog, your problem; if it went like stink, other teams problem.

Example the Ferrari that was built to compete against the Porsch 917 had a horrible aero design, so Penske re-did it better as he saw fit.
Ccan you do that today?

As I have written before, until the nineties when sanctions somehow got the idea that they were a god, car builders built cars, race track owner & promoters, promoted races, and sanctions, sanctioned races.
Each knew its proper place and tried not to deliberately screw with the other two.
Despite the sometimes off-key actions of USAC and NASCAR, it wan not until the nineties that sanctions decided they were going to be the do-all, be-all, and know-all for everyone; it has only gone down hill since then as far as the tech. side is concerned.
If one wrote an abstract of what has gone wrong, there would be side bars, or chapter outlines for the FIA, SCCA, NASCAR etc., but that is another whole thread.
Bob

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Purist

Each of us draws that line of acceptable llimitations within the rules at a different point.

and I thought acceptable limits are what you dont get caught doing.

SCCA Run Offs are coming soon to Kansas, what to see more ppl hide whats under the hoods? Go to the Run Offs, Any class will do.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

and I thought acceptable limits are what you dont get caught doing.

SCCA Run Offs are coming soon to Kansas, what to see more ppl hide whats under the hoods? Go to the Run Offs, Any class will do.

For some odd reason, I still have not picked up the Smokey Yunick book that should be required reading for every racer, on how to read a rule book. Bob

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

For some odd reason, I still have not picked up the Smokey Yunick book that should be required reading for every racer, on how to read a rule book. Bob

Bob DO IT. Very good reading.

[dj choc ice]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

But wasn't the Toyota GT-One designed by the guy who's done the areo on the Pescarolo, and the Peugeot 905 and 908(by the way, the person in question was French!).

that would be andre d'cortanz, although i dont think he designed the 908 but he defientely designed the pescarolo from 2003 onwards and the 905 and TS020 GT1 toyota.