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Old 15 Jun 2010, 08:31 (Ref:2712432)   #1
Taxi645
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Taxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTaxi645 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Speed limiter vs. Safety car"

I was wondering with all the safety cars mess in so many races, why not opt for a speed limiter system? If the need arises a light goes on in the cockpit and drivers have 10 seconds to safely get to the speed limit (say 110kmh) with no overtaking allowed.

No one gaining or loosing time or even a complete lap. Perhaps it takes some of the charm away, but wouldn't it be more fair to everyone?
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 12:34 (Ref:2712541)   #2
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You're missing a very important reason for using the safety car. It's not just there to slow the cars down; arguably its most important function is to bunch the cars up so that marshals, rescue, recovery, etc., working trackside know that there is a safe gap in which to work. Just slow the cars down & you won't have a big, predictable gap.
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 13:50 (Ref:2712588)   #3
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I agree Taxi, this has always been a bug bear of mine.

The only thing I would add, it that on the section of cautioned track you need to keep the cars to one side, the side away from the incident keeping a safe distance between marshals etc on track dealing with the incident and the cars going past.

I was watching Cart or some such USA oval race a number of years ago and noticed their rescue fire trucks were used to create a safety barrier between the incident and the cars still circulating.

I got to thinking imagine having a number of dedicated vehicles around a circuit that were used to come out and funnel the cars onto the safe clear side of the circuit. Full bit, flashing lights, arrow lights etc, then when they hit the green flag safely past the incident, race the remainder of the lap until you get back to the restricted area with the incident, back to single file on safe side of circuit at pit lane limiter speed, and keep going in this fashion until its cleared.

If they need to bring recovery trucks, medical vehicles etc around the circuit expand the length of cautioned restricted track to accommodate them coming around on the closed side of the circuit. Contract cautioned section of track again when they reach the incident. Expand again when they leave the incident.

A circuit would need to be able to operate this system from either side of the circuit, so things like recovery or medical vehicles would need to have the ability to enter and exit the circuit from both sides so they aren't darting across racing traffic and are staying on the side of the circuit containing the incident.

I see this as more of an issue at endurance events such as Le Mans because safety cars artificially manipulate the race.

One that narks me more then most and I see this nearly every year is the Bathurst 1000 where you can guarantee there's a safety car probably 10 or 20 laps from the end creating a sprint finish, some might think it spices things up, but if that is what you want to watch, go and watch sprint racing.
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 15:07 (Ref:2712616)   #4
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I got to thinking imagine having a number of dedicated vehicles around a circuit that were used to come out and funnel the cars onto the safe clear side of the circuit. Full bit, flashing lights, arrow lights etc, then when they hit the green flag safely past the incident, race the remainder of the lap until you get back to the restricted area with the incident, back to single file on safe side of circuit at pit lane limiter speed, and keep going in this fashion until its cleared.

If they need to bring recovery trucks, medical vehicles etc around the circuit expand the length of cautioned restricted track to accommodate them coming around on the closed side of the circuit. Contract cautioned section of track again when they reach the incident. Expand again when they leave the incident.

A circuit would need to be able to operate this system from either side of the circuit, so things like recovery or medical vehicles would need to have the ability to enter and exit the circuit from both sides so they aren't darting across racing traffic and are staying on the side of the circuit containing the incident.
Where do I start? At most circuits there are only a limited number of places where vehicles can enter or leave the circuit - to provide enough entry/exit points for your system to work would be prohibitively expensive &, in many cases, impossible. Then you 'd need a lot more rescue units, recovery vehicles, doctors, etc., all of which have to be paid for by the organising club.

Pit lane limiter speed may still be too fast for safety past an incident; the safety car is in contact with race control, who can relay messages from the people handling the incident as to how fast to go & which side of the track to use - bear in mind that as clearing of the incident progresses, the "safe" side may vary. The safety car also reports its position at regular intervals, so the incident handlers know when the cars will be approaching & can act accordingly.

Rescue units need to take injured drivers to the medical centre, recovery units need to take damaged cars back to Parc Fermé or the paddock, which means they may have to cover a considerable length of track. The safety car driver knows where they are & can control the speed of the "train" to keep behind them.

Your idea of "contracting & expanding" the section of track under caution to accommodate is unnecessary - that situation is covered by the white flag.

The safety car may not be an ideal solution, but in terms of resources required & the level of control provided it works well. It ain't broke. . . don't try to fix it.
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 15:55 (Ref:2712637)   #5
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terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Well put over Dave.
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 17:56 (Ref:2712694)   #6
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arakis has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
why not red flag the race, and at restart simply let cars out of the pits in intrvals of the gaps they where before the incident
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 18:58 (Ref:2712739)   #7
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^because then, the cars don't run for 24 hours..
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Old 15 Jun 2010, 23:51 (Ref:2712898)   #8
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Why not the drivers just obey the flag signals and regulations? Saves the need for all sorts of faffing about and clever technology.

Would help if we could also sort out the regulations, but enforcing what we've got would be a good start.
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Old 22 Jun 2010, 20:24 (Ref:2716532)   #9
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courageous should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcourageous should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
No safety car at dubai or 'ring 24 - they seem to cope ok
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Old 23 Jun 2010, 01:29 (Ref:2716659)   #10
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why not red flag the race, and at restart simply let cars out of the pits in intrvals of the gaps they where before the incident
Because fans wouldn't see cars pass by during long minutes (80 to 110 seconds each ).
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Old 25 Jun 2010, 18:36 (Ref:2717947)   #11
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You're missing a very important reason for using the safety car. It's not just there to slow the cars down; arguably its most important function is to bunch the cars up so that marshals, rescue, recovery, etc., working trackside know that there is a safe gap in which to work. Just slow the cars down & you won't have a big, predictable gap.
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No safety car at Dubai or 'ring 24 - they seem to cope ok
Dubai uses the Dutch "Code 60" system, which is indicated by flags all round and can include cockpit lights a la IRL.

This ensures all cars travel at 60kph, and is policed by the timing computer so there is no ignoring. The lap positions stay the same, so there is no disadvantage to competitors (see LeMans this year for their safety car disadvantages).

Equally, though there is not a big gap created by the safety car/crocodile, nor is there a chance of a fast car leaving the pits and trying to catch the train going through the incident site at near race speed - always a worry under safety car.

Using safety vehicles to direct traffic works well on ovals and road courses in N.America, where drivers have been brought up in that philosophy. However for British circuits there are usually no spaces to station these vehicles round the track.
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