FIA F2 2011 discussion

[TalkToFrank]

Originally Posted by Mach3

Also good to see an objective opinion in this thread...peebee, can i ask whether you agree with the answer bighand supplied for you because its actually an interesting point you raise. the suspicion has been around since the start that F2 is not an F1 feeder series, but could it actually work in the series' favour if the likes of Stoneman and Palmer go to GP2? (because then F2 could be seen as a low-cost proving ground for youngsters to go on to the next level...)

If F2 is going to turn into a feeder series for GP2, then they should have called it GP3 instead of F2. Oh no, they couldnt could they because GP3 exists and does precisely that job of feeding GP2 already!!

[Mak]

Originally Posted by TalkToFrank

If F2 is going to turn into a feeder series for GP2, then they should have called it GP3 instead of F2. Oh no, they couldnt could they because GP3 exists and does precisely that job of feeding GP2 already!!

F2 is much better on all counts than GP3 and at 1/2 the cost..

[bella]

which quite frankly, is saying something...

[Bighand]

F2 is club racing. The standard of drivers is very poor. Stoneman would run about 10th in GP3 as he did when he tested. If you want to progress to GP2 or F1 you need to race on the same circuits like GP3 does, not Zolder, Brno, Marrkech, Oschersleben etc. The car is cheap, poorly designed and built. Theres no crowd. 1 engineer per 3 cars. 1 or 2 data engineers for the whole field. Its run by one of the drivers dads. That driver made the biggest improvement in pace over the winter i have ever seen. Only about 5 of the drivers from last year stayed on for this year which shows you what they think of it. Most people in motorsport consider F2 as a joke now. Now Mosley has gone the FIA dont want it. Other than that i guess its ok. At least Palmer is real nice guy.

[Mach3]

To be honest I'm growing tired of this kind of drivel - these forums do a job in provoking debate, but you clearly have an influenced agenda and it doesn't belong in 10/10ths...

As for F2, the Palmer jnr/Palmer snr link has been beaten many times - if you look previously I asked whether Jolon's run-in put a lie to any favouritism rumours...I'm no expert, but the car is designed and built by Williams and I'm willing to believe they know what they're doing...and yes, the series is meant to be cheap, that's pretty much its modus operandi

As for quality, this year is not as strong as last's but then again last year's was actually probably stronger than I gave it credit for at the time (Wickens runner-up in GP3, Aleshin leading WSbR, Piscopo leading Auto GP etc.)

The point of this forum is to debate topics, and F2 actually lends itself very well to that as it splits opinion quite a lot. If you have a point, make it sensibly and reason it out, don't just spout a personal vendetta.

[bella]

i agree with both of you.

on the one hand i agree with bighand - on the actual motorsport face of it, f2 is pants. it just shouldn't exist as a serious concept.

on the other hand i agree with mach3 - last years field was probably more competitive than we thought at first. and the vendettas are getting a bit dull.

BUT. they do have a point, and they're not going to change because the problems everyone has with it are the things that aren't really fixable in the short term. and they're also principles that the formula was based on.

i'm not really sure the fact they run on non-f1 circuits should be relevant though. let's face it, they all will learn circuits on simulators before the races in their fictional f1 careers. and the more a driver learns to adapt to different circuits and learn the lines and so forth the better an all round driver they become.

[Bighand]

If F2 really is a good, cost effective series then that will be reflected in the drivers who sign up to do it. My guess is they will struggle to get any sort of grid next year and that they will lose the FIA status because the standard of the grid is so poor. The real test of any formulas merits is the size and quality of the grid it attracts. I see Calado has signed for GP3 today.

[EastonNeston]

There was a very interesting quote from Martin Brundle, who's son raced in the series and knows a bit about racing. Martin said that Alex had learnt more in his first two weeks in F3 than in all his time in FPA and F2'.

F2 is a series for which there is no need.

[Rf1 Fan]

F2 won't be part of WTCC support package:
http://twitter.com/BenConsty

[NaBUru38]

They can't support the GT Open full-time because they have F3 and Auto GP in the package. Neither the SRO GT Endurance because they have the British F3.

[duke_toaster]

The series is simply too weak (in terms of driver quality, and name to actual status ratio) to be a headline, it has to be on something else's undercard. In addition to BF3 supporting/coheadlining GT1 races as you mentioned, Superleague Formula has shared top billing with both GT1 (such as at Los Arcos recently) and Auto GP/IGTO. They can't join the DTM because they've got EuroF3, I genuinely can't think of any major bill they would fit on. I don't see the series getting it's FIA contract renewed, which expires after next year. I suppose some ideas from FIAF2 could be transferred in to F3 though, although the FIA for some reason doesn't want to do anything about lower single seaters.

[peebee2]

Sounds like could be some sort of even more cut-price British F2/Super FPA may be? Doubt the F3 Open teams would want it as permanent support. Or the Brit F3 teams come to that

[JohnMiller]

But why wouldn't it be on WTCC undercard again?

[Valker]

So, if WTCC, GT1, DTM and GT Open are all out of the question, as suggested in this thread, how about FIA Truck EC?

They have 10 events in their 2011 calendar (vs. 9 F2 meetings in 2010). All those circuits (should) have Grade2 licence so it won't be a problem either...

[NaBUru38]

Not a bad idea, Valker.

[Valker]

http://www.fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre...sc_031110.aspx

2011 FIA Formula 2 Championship

17/04 	GBR 	Silverstone
22/05 	FRA 	Magny-Cours*
26/06 	BEL 	Spa-Francorchamps*
03/07 	DEU 	Nürburgring
24/07 	GBR 	Brands Hatch
28/08 	AUT 	Red Bull Ring*
02/10 	ITA 	Monza*
30/10 	ESP 	Barcelona*

* Subject to the ASN's confirmation

[Mach3]

Once again, I'm always behind the times...saw this on Autosport, only to see I was about three days behind the times already! Thought I might have a bit of news for once!

Anyway, interesting quote from Mr Palmer himself on this (from the F2 site):

"The FIA Formula Two championship is now well established with its unique proposition providing outstanding performance, equality and reliability at remarkably low cost. After two successful years we wanted to enhance F2 still further and our superb 2011 calendar now comprises exclusively outstanding circuits including mainly F1 tracks, which our F1 targeting drivers obviously favour."

[Valker]

Spa, Monza and Montmeló are on the same dates as in 2010 European F3 Open calendar...

[Eccles]

How can Palmer claim the series will mainly use F1 tracks, when 3 out of the 8 are not used by F1 - thats nearly 40%!!!!!

I also do not understand what he means by "our superb 2011 calendar now comprises exclusively outstanding circuits"

What is an exclusively outstanding circuit? They are not exclusive if other series race on them too and some arent outstanding at all as F1 has either dropped them or is not even allowed to race there anymore.

The spin they send out for this series is incredible, especially when we keep getting the same old story about poor drivers and a cheap to race championship, yet the series owner still manages to take over a million quid profit out of the sport each year for running this circus!! Why not make it cheaper if you really want to support young talent and take out less profit?

[bella]

Originally Posted by Eccles

Why not make it cheaper if you really want to support young talent and take out less profit?

he's got to find the money to run his son in something somehow

[Mach3]

In all seriousness though not a bad calendar really - if nothing else it shows a bit of intent to raise the profile, which is always good.

Don't know where you get the figures Eccles but as I say I always seem to be the last one here on the news, so perhaps your are correct. Haven't heard a price mentioned but am assuming it will go up a little again to cover the costs of the circuits (not an expert but surely its fair to assume that better circuits can chareg more!?)

[NaBUru38]

Yes, Valker, it seems that GT Sport actually sees a performance gap between F3 and Auto GP.

[Go_For_Pole]

225 pounds + VAT with no TV deal and no WilliamsF1 test mention. Good luck to MSV.

[peebee2]

Presumably still not enough staff to run it properly, no chance for a driver to learn about working with high-line engineers and still under 3,000 km for the season

If now there is no F1 test etc. it will be worse than this year, if that is possible

[Juntos]

Last season they committed mistakes that brought discredit upon the championship. Good luck to MSV. We won't miss F2 anyway.