[WEC] Porsche Prototype Discussion

[porman]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

May the mistakes be corrected quickly and may the 2015 car be like a phoenix rising from the ashes of the troubled 2014 car.

Wow! You are quite the wordsmith.

[Spyderman]

[valedave]

Originally Posted by EricS

Here's the incident with Nick trying to get interviews after the race: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCTIt2HbLk&t=33h36m50s
And here he is again explaining it on the post race tech show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCTIt2HbLk&t=34h10m

Those timestamps on the youtube links aren't right (34 hours?) - at what point in the broadcast were they?

[EricS]

Originally Posted by valedave

Those timestamps on the youtube links aren't right (34 hours?) - at what point in the broadcast were they?

*shrug* I think it's just the videostream incremented the entire time broadcasting, i.e. they streamed for 34+ hours over the weekend. Those specific links were right after the checkered flag.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by valedave

Those timestamps on the youtube links aren't right (34 hours?) - at what point in the broadcast were they?

A bit of math and trial and error gives these..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCTIt2HbLk&t=3h21m32s (listen to at least around 3:24:00 or so)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yCTIt2HbLk&t=3h56m10s

Richard

[valedave]

Hmm, well the linked video was only 4 hours long when i opened it. Will try those others when i get home.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by valedave

Hmm, well the linked video was only 4 hours long when i opened it. Will try those others when i get home.

I assume it has something to do with what happens to a video once it transitions from a live event streaming to a static video after the event is over. So while the streaming was live, the time offset values were likely based upon the actual start of the broadcast. But the current video seems to only capture the last four hours, so the offsets I provided are based upon the smaller version.

The two segments are near the end. One close to the end and the other about 34 (+/-) minutes earlier.

Richard

[EricS]

Yeah, for me the video starts at the 30hr mark and ends at 34ish. Both links Richard posted take me to the very beginning of the video.

[Spyderman]

Last night I sat pondering over the very steep hill that Porsche will have to climb in 2015. Audi will not again suffer from two turbo failures. One can bet his/her bottom dollar that the turbos in the Audi next year will be able to withstand a small nuclear explosion detonated only feet away. It will remain unscathed; along with the cockroaches.

Toyota will have its wiring sorted out and will slow to a reasonable pace at the very hint of rain.

Both Audi and Toyota will mesmerize with their speed. The Audi's will chug along at an ungodly pace resembling a Panza division in full strike mode. Toyota will again have a "secret weapon" and will blister along the track in all of its flexing glory.

Porsche indeed have a mountain to climb.

[GasperG]

I think that they have the speed, they proved it on numerous occasions. They were just so worried about reliability that they tuned their cars on the lover pace. God knows how many turbos or other bits of engine would die if they hadn't done that. If they can make their "complex" drive train more reliable, speed will come from it's own.

[J Jay]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Both Audi and Toyota will mesmerize with their speed. The Audi's will chug along at an ungodly pace resembling a Panza division in full strike mode. Toyota will again have a "secret weapon" and will blister along the track in all of its flexing glory.

Porsche have already won a WEC race which shows the speed is there (compare/contrast to 2012 WEC, not many people expected Toyota to do much but they sure bloodied Audi's nose). Reliability and refinement will be enough for Porsche to be a contender again next year. This is only their first year back at Le Mans, and as Audi have shown there is no substitute for experience.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

Last night I sat pondering over the very steep hill that Porsche will have to climb in 2015. Audi will not again suffer from two turbo failures. One can bet his/her bottom dollar that the turbos in the Audi next year will be able to withstand a small nuclear explosion detonated only feet away. It will remain unscathed; along with the cockroaches.

Toyota will have its wiring sorted out and will slow to a reasonable pace at the very hint of rain.

Both Audi and Toyota will mesmerize with their speed. The Audi's will chug along at an ungodly pace resembling a Panza division in full strike mode. Toyota will again have a "secret weapon" and will blister along the track in all of its flexing glory.

Porsche indeed have a mountain to climb.

This post comes off as a bit paranoid that Porsche is somehow inferior or incapable of going toe to toe with TMG and Audi Sport with their own brilliant engineers. To think that would be wrong...very very wrong.

[Bandicoot17]

Originally Posted by J Jay

Porsche have already won a WEC race which shows the speed is there (compare/contrast to 2012 WEC, not many people expected Toyota to do much but they sure bloodied Audi's nose). Reliability and refinement will be enough for Porsche to be a contender again next year. This is only their first year back at Le Mans, and as Audi have shown there is no substitute for experience.

They haven't won a wec race

[Maelochs]

It is a steep hill; Toyota has a few seasons' immediate experience and Audi has pretty much owned Le Mans since 2000. Porsche can do it, no doubt. It won't be easy, no doubt.

Is Porsche less committed or less capable? No way. But Porsche apparently has built a car which is difficult to drive, which might be the biggest issue. Meanwhile, Audi and Toyota will be developing their cars too.

This year to looks like Porsche only wins if Toyota and Audi lose---it doens't look like the car can beat the competition. And next year the competition will be better---meaning Porsche has to out-develop and out-refine the other two.

Yeah, it's doable and yeah, that's a tall order. No paranoia, just analysis.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

It is a steep hill; Toyota has a few seasons' immediate experience and Audi has pretty much owned Le Mans since 2000. Porsche can do it, no doubt. It won't be easy, no doubt.

Is Porsche less committed or less capable? No way. But Porsche apparently has built a car which is difficult to drive, which might be the biggest issue. Meanwhile, Audi and Toyota will be developing their cars too.

This year to looks like Porsche only wins if Toyota and Audi lose---it doens't look like the car can beat the competition. And next year the competition will be better---meaning Porsche has to out-develop and out-refine the other two.

Yeah, it's doable and yeah, that's a tall order. No paranoia, just analysis.

Exactly my thoughts...only you said it better than I could manage.

[Richard C]

I am envisioning Spyderman in a bar somewhere totally drunk shouting "Porsche! Why have your forsaken me!"

That may or may not win Le Mans next year. If they don't win, I expect them to be much improved and a force to recon with. I enjoy the battle, wins are just icing on the cake. So either way I am happy.

Richard

[Spyderman]

Ha my dear chap! Whilst contemplating, I was as sober as a judge. I will admit however, that at times , I was almost driven to drink.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

This year to looks like Porsche only wins if Toyota and Audi lose---it doens't look like the car can beat the competition. And next year the competition will be better---meaning Porsche has to out-develop and out-refine the other two.

We cannot say Porsche don't have the speed. As for not being able to beat the competition? Did you see how quick #14 Porsche was at Spa until Dumas activated the safety? How did you get that conclusion. I don't see any reason why they cannot be fast.

The #20 was difficult to drive at Le Mans only because they broke the rear anti-roll bar and the drivers were being told not to use the brakes. It's not down to a car with poor driveability when it's healthy. Did Jani look like he was struggling to drive the thing at Spa? No. Silverstone was their first race. For a brand new car to be racing the Toyota for the win is pretty damn spectacular. And to be leading with 3 hours to go is pretty damn spectacular for the first year car.

and the #14 Porsche was still lapping very quickly near the end of the race.
Both Hartley and Webber we're expecting to do 3:20's in qualy.. That's as fast as anyone.

I just really need everyone to stop saying this car doesn't have the pace...and painting this like doom and gloom.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by Articus

We cannot say Porsche don't have the speed. As for not being able to beat the competition? Did you see how quick #14 Porsche was at Spa until Dumas activated the safety? How did you get that conclusion. I don't see any reason why they cannot be fast.

Spa was not a good reference point. Sand bags were still fully on-board on both the Audi and Toyota cars.

Originally Posted by Articus

The #20 was difficult to drive at Le Mans only because they broke the rear anti-roll bar and the drivers were being told not to use the brakes. It's not down to a car with poor driveability when it's healthy. Did Jani look like he was struggling to drive the thing at Spa? No. Silverstone was their first race. For a brand new car to be racing the Toyota for the win is pretty damn spectacular. And to be leading with 3 hours to go is pretty damn spectacular for the first year car.

The car was difficult to drive quickly continuously. The drivers have hinted at this.

Originally Posted by Articus

and the #14 Porsche was still lapping very quickly near the end of the race.
Both Hartley and Webber we're expecting to do 3:20's in qualy.. That's as fast as anyone.

I'll believe that the car can do 3:20 when I see it.

Originally Posted by Articus

I just really need everyone to stop saying this car doesn't have the pace...and painting this like doom and gloom.

No doom and gloom here. Just having reality set in. It will be very interesting to see the development of the car for the rest of the season. I'm also looking forward to the first images of the 2015 car.
Having said all that, I do think it will be a very,very tough challenge, but Porsche can do it.....I hope.

[Articus]

Ok points noted. I still just don't think that things are as bad as they look. Maybe it took Toyota 3 years and counting but did Toyota have half the budget Porsche has had? Porsche erected an entire facility at Weissach...Porsche has the most recent Le Mans experience maybe not directly LMP1 related but with regards to P2 and GTE. Even the slightest bit if knowledge from those Programs is more than Toyota ever had.

And for the record no cars ran 3:20's but don't think for a second that the Toyota and the Porsche couldn't whether you saw it or not. Low fuel, soft tires. Davidson, Nakajima, Jani, Hartley. Done deal.

[Maelochs]

I want to emphasize that both Mr. Spyderman and I are Porsche fans (though really I am a fan of most teams...glad to have racing to watch) and both think Porsche can, and hope Porsche will, do exceedingly well in every race from CotA forward.

Both of us, having watched the Porsches in their first three races, feel that the car is not quite as refined as the Toyotas or Audis.

I will also point out that Audi had apparent handling issues at Silverstone, possibly related to the back end reacting oddly due to the regenerative braking ... I cannot be sure, but that's my take on it. I could be wrong about that, and maybe the Porsches are the quickest cars on the grid ... though I haven't seen it yet. But ... maybe I overlooked it.

I (nor Mr. Wall-Crawler (and yes, I realize your profile pic is a Porsche Spyder---you know by now I am not well )) are trying to disparage Porsche, nor are we in any way biased against Porsche. We just all have slightly different takes on the three races so far.

Everything will start over fresh at CotA, where Porsche should have new bodywork and more development. However fast or slow it was compared to the competition in the past will mean nothing.

Of course Audi and Toyota will ... wait, we covered all that.

[Articus]

Agreed the car is not refined but I think the raw pace is there. Enough to do damage in qualy atleast. Fritz Enzinger said himself that Porsche was going to have a run at Pole.

I think Porsche could win soon and they could do it before Toyota. This was Toyota's easy year. Now if they ever want to win it's gotta be a dogfight. I don't think they will ever have quite the pace advantage they have had this year. Audi was put on notice this year. Porsche are already working on a 919 Evo probably.

It was the same with the RS Spyder. The 2005-06 car was troublesome but quick.

[deltawing]

The car does not have high DF package for a reason. They need to find efficient power, which will be challenging with this engine.

[Spyderman]

Originally Posted by deltawing

The car does not have high DF package for a reason. They need to find efficient power, which will be challenging with this engine.

This is something I have thought about in my musings. A new V6 2.5L turbo engine might solve some issues, but I doubt we will see this in the next car.

[carbon_titanium]

a bigger engine is possible, something like 2.2 or 2.4 but for sure will be again in the same V4 configuration