What cars would we like in TUSC, but aren't eligible entries?

[TRspitfirefan]

Just watched the Bathurst 12 hr. yesterday.
Tusc really needs to get Mercedes, Maclaren, Nissan and Lamborghini into the GTD class.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Just watched the Bathurst 12 hr. yesterday.
Tusc really needs to get Mercedes, Maclaren, Nissan and Lamborghini into the GTD class.

Makes you wonder what could have been in the ALMS if they had seen the big picture and opened up GTC to other cars. Perhaps this whole merger could have been avoided...

[Maelochs]

(Sorry if this should go in "Rate the race" but I am responding to a post here.)

ALMS could not have survived merely by letting GT3 in---GT3 looked so good at Bathurst because they were the top class and got full coverage. Think about how gripping was the F-Class coverage, and that would have been GTC.

ALMS needed a healthy top class---and with no viewers it had no sponsors, so no teams.

One of the big differences between ALMS and Bathurst 12---no penalties and no long cautions. (Well, three penalties---for a 40-car field over 12 hours.)

There were some calls that I might have made---the Phoenix Audi nailed a MARC Fusion at the Elbow pretty egregiously---and two were penalties for leaving a pit board out (????)

Another difference? That last caution was cleaned up---car, parts, fluid---in five minutes. None of the cautions were longer than they needed to be. (And with the RLM crew to fill the gap, the cautions didn't seem so long.)

Another difference? The Bathurst 12 this year was an exceptional endurance race; the Rolex this year, for comparison purposes, was merely a good endurance race (save certain issues already over-discussed.)

Not every race is going to feature a pair of hour-long battles for the overall lead between Shane Van Gisbergen and Bernd Schneider, even if both are on the grid. Not every race is going to have so many real contenders left so close together at the end---and every one of them on a different strategy.

If one team had guessed wrong on tires for one stint, or had a loose bolt or a loose wire ... if any of the slower drivers had not pulled over to let the big boys past (the F-Class Abarths pulled Entirely Off the Track to let the leaders by at the final restart!!!) or if anything had not been just as it was .... If VIP had saved SVG for late in the race he wouldn't have been battling with Schneider (and might not have been so far behind in the final hours) ....

A Lot of factors came together to make Bathurst an exceptional race. There is no formula another series can copy to get the same type of race.

THAT is what TUSC needs to learn: There is no formula, no way, no matter how much the series manipulates, to guarantee a great endurance race. The best bet is to set up the best possible circumstances beforehand, and then let the drivers race.

That way the race will probably be at least good, maybe great, and now and then, exceptional.

[jeast]

P1 for at least the NAEC.

[Speed-King]

ALMS could not have survived merely by letting GT3 in---GT3 looked so good at Bathurst because they were the top class and got full coverage. Think about how gripping was the F-Class coverage, and that would have been GTC.

[...]

Another difference? That last caution was cleaned up---car, parts, fluid---in five minutes.

Another point to that: The safetycar system at Bathurst was pretty much the mid-2000s ALMS system, i.e. one that didn't care about splitting up battles in the lower classes.

They can do that at Bathurst, because the lower classes are for the most part undersubscribed and because there's no manufacturer interest there. I doubt they could have gone with that system had there been a battle of works teams in one of the lower classes - or at least they couldn't have done it without seriously p.o.-ing those hypothetical manufacturer teams.

With the bulk of the manufacturer teams in TUSCC being in the second slowest class, the Bathurst system really isn't anything that can be applied in the US-series.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Not LMP1

One of the only good things about this merger in my opinion.


I'd love to see Mercedes, Mclaren ect in GTD if that's what your talking about. I controversially would rather an all-GT series because I really struggle to give a damn about hideous DP and P2 cars fielded mostly by semi-amateur teams and don't really care about the VAG Boardroom class in WEC but I realize that is not for everybody and not realistic at the current moment with so many DP and P2 teams invested in TUSCC.

As for the race, it was great, it had a solid pace with great coverage with what is consistently the most exciting and varied class of racing in the world right now with drivers such as Schneider, SVG and Craig Lowndes. You cannot 'manufacture' that kind of drama and sometimes some races are classics just because all things fall together correctly, like we saw at Bathurst yesterday.

[Maelochs]

Not sure about that ... at the Rolex, after Memo Gidley's wreck, there was a thirty-minute delay to extract two drivers and clean up the wreck ... and an longer delay to reset the field.

I have to wonder, why didn't they have one person figuring the order while everyone else was watching the cleanup? it's not like race control had a lot to do while the safety crew was working.

Same with TUSC ... one lap to collect the field, one lap for P pits, one lap gor GT pits, and one lap for all wave-bys---since there would be no LWWB there wouldn't need to be another lap for general pit stops (I wish)---and the order for wave-bys would already be calculated (after all these guys all have transponders.)

Have two guys in race control whose job, once the yellow waves, would be to track on-track order and whoever doesn't pit with class gets ticked for a wave-by. I see no reason why it should take so long to get the classes ordered--in the age of radio, and all.

I noticed they used wave-bys at Bathurst too---so that wasn't the deciding factor. I also noticed they used things like open pits and even (???) local yellows---the race director Didn't Want to go to caution----sort of like WEC, and the exact opposite of TUSC.

it took five minutes to clean up an entire car leaking fluids at Bathurst--it took what, 13 minutes to pick up some invisible debris at Daytona (I guess the invisible debris is harder to find, though.)

Also, the Rules for Daytona said no LDWB after 30 minutes to go--make the rules open pit in the last half-hour too, and also---hustle to get the race going again, instead of taking it slow to try to keep things close at the finish.

I have beaten this horse into horse jelly----but anyone who watch Bathurst this year saw what an endurance race Should and Can be, so comparisons are unavoidable.---IMO, of course.

[Maelochs]

In the spirit of the original post I agree---Lambo, Merc, and McLaren are awesome cars and beautiful to watch. I can't really pick between them.

On the other hand, I will see PWC at least once this year so I will see those cars in action.

[jasonjessica09]

http://new.livestream.com/itvl/event...ideos/41811231
Video link to Bathurst by the way

Cars I want to see in TUSK. The Mercedes and McLaren for sure. But I want GTD to be full FIA GT3 accept for Pro-am drivers and spec tires. Maybe a smaller gas tank too. So what that the speed differential will be next to zero with GTLM. But GTE pro and am are right on top of each other in WEC nobody cars about that. They are GT cars for goodness sake. They can handle it.

The car in TUSK that is there now that I can do without? Easy one: The Oreca FLM. In fact I would not mind seeing TUSK be GT only one day myself.

[garcon]

We can keep dishing points out until you're all banned or we can keep closing threads ... or maybe you could try doing as you're asked and follow the rules.

Which is it?




(The people to whom this is addressed know very well who they are.)

[Lagunaseca_4life]

I know it would cause a total sh!t storm on these boards with these guys around here.

But I liked those gtc foci(focus's?).at one point I felt like they were like lmpc's getting in the way and causing trouble on track.but still pretty cool little cars,I googled them and I guess they are Australian built for a new South African touring car series(that I haven't heard of yet?) so pretty much a tubed frame with a ford 5.0 coyote stuffed in with a focus body over it.i guess they are trying to get Audi and BMW bodies going.still a cool little car.

I would love to see those merc sls' here too, I was disappointed when they didn't run at sonoma pwc and the only one had issues at long beach.the mclaren is awesome to hope to see them at long beach pwc too.

The Nissan gtr and Bentley gt3 look pretty amazing as well.

[Maelochs]

The MARC Focuses were fine for what they were---I wouldn't want them in TUSC but they are certainly hot rods.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Just watched the Bathurst 12 hr. yesterday.
Tusc really needs to get Mercedes, Maclaren, Nissan and Lamborghini into the GTD class.

Well we already know Nissan is coming and there's plans at least for Mercedes to run TUSC. I'm sure IMSA would work with a team who wanted to run a Lambo or a McLaren to get them into the class if the team was willing to make the necessary changes to the cars, with the McLaren I would assume being the most difficult to balance to the GTD class.

[Lanky Turtle]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

The MARC Focuses were fine for what they were---I wouldn't want them in TUSC but they are certainly hot rods.

I think they're neat too, but had no business in this race. Their own class with one team running all of them.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by TRspitfirefan

Just watched the Bathurst 12 hr. yesterday.
Tusc really needs to get Mercedes, Maclaren, Nissan and Lamborghini into the GTD class.

Don't forget Bentley. Also if the NSX ever arrives that would be good as well. Not just in GTD. It would be nice to see a GTE version of some of these too.
I agree with jasonjessica09, if they need dropped PC after this season to allow more GT entries I wouldn't mind at all.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by FordCosworthPanoz

Not LMP1

One of the only good things about this merger in my opinion.


I'd love to see Mercedes, Mclaren ect in GTD if that's what your talking about. I controversially would rather an all-GT series because I really struggle to give a damn about hideous DP and P2 cars fielded mostly by semi-amateur teams and don't really care about the VAG Boardroom class in WEC but I realize that is not for everybody and not realistic at the current moment with so many DP and P2 teams invested in TUSCC.

As for the race, it was great, it had a solid pace with great coverage with what is consistently the most exciting and varied class of racing in the world right now with drivers such as Schneider, SVG and Craig Lowndes. You cannot 'manufacture' that kind of drama and sometimes some races are classics just because all things fall together correctly, like we saw at Bathurst yesterday.

Pretty much fully agree with this, just with slightly less strong words in regards to the DPs and P2s.

I would like to see it go all-GT as GTLM even right now has all the ingredients to make an excellent headliner class, and if it was promoted to top class I would be willing to bet we would see some more involvement from Ferrari and Aston. Optimistically speaking, the possibility of running in the headliner class and taking overall wins at Sebring and Petit may have helped with decision making on things like the GTE McLaren and Lexus too.

Originally Posted by Lanky Turtle

I think they're neat too, but had no business in this race. Their own class with one team running all of them.

They were kinda cool, but I sorta disagree that they had no business the race. I've only been following it for a few years, but one part that I have liked is the weird stuff that turns up like the Daytona Coupe replica and RX-7s and Commodores and etc. The class battles aren't always very interesting, but it can be fun to see how they fair over the course of the race.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

I know I know they don't really fit in gtd, fit more in like the old gagt.but they were fun yet annoy to watch.i just like the ford coyote 5.0 engine and think it would be fun to see a group of "focuses" with big ol v8s stuffed in them.

Speaking of Lexus, would be nice if Toyota North America would foot the bill to get that tmg lfa that they didn't have the budget to run along lmp1 wec.would be nice to see it in gtlm.doesn't Lexus have a gt3 is for something too?

[Matt]

The MARC Foci were basically current V8SC COTF with a small car body on them.

I say allow GT3 as is, EXCEPT for the ABS and traction control for GTD use.

I'm not sure how it works in the racecars(and this will probably seem super ignorant), but I know for street cars to remove ABS and TCS it's as simple as pulling a fuse.

[Lagunaseca_4life]

Originally Posted by Matt

The MARC Foci were basically current V8SC COTF with a small car body on them.

I say allow GT3 as is, EXCEPT for the ABS and traction control for GTD use.

I'm not sure how it works in the racecars(and this will probably seem super ignorant), but I know for street cars to remove ABS and TCS it's as simple as pulling a fuse.

From dagys bathurst notebook.

***HTP Motorsport could also compete in PWC later this year, with the German squad determined to bring at least one of its Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG GT3s Stateside. While a GTD effort in the TUDOR Championship is the primary goal, an entirely new brake system would have to be developed for the car, due to ABS not being allowed. The team, however, is hopeful that AMG would support the necessary changes.

As for street cars pulling the fuse will only disable it,more modern technically advanced stability control systems control and rely on more systems.most abs modules are now gate modules on the can bus communicating on both high and medium speed systems with some medium speed modules relying on the abs module to communicate on the high speed system for them.forget about disabling let alone removing abs on a street car now adays.

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Matt

I'm not sure how it works in the racecars(and this will probably seem super ignorant), but I know for street cars to remove ABS and TCS it's as simple as pulling a fuse.

I don't know what the problems would be either. I would assume that the cars would require a slightly different setup to optimize them for running without the aids, and of course some fiddling around with the electronics to remove the systems, but I'm not sure what would need to change from a mechanical standpoint, other than removal of some sensors or something.

[chernaudi]

All of the stuff with ABS and TC on modern GT cars is probably like that on modern road cars, where there's some redundancy on the systems that's hard to crack. You'd have to get a whole new ECU for sure to get rid of all of it. These GT cars and LMP cars and any vehicle that races equipped with TC do have an on/off switch, but even if you can kill the TC by turning it off, it's only dormant, not gone, though that point is obvious.

To make sure that it can be on the car at all, at least the ECU--one without TC or ABS ever being equipped and no provision for them--would be needed. And I have no idea what the cost per vehicle would be for the guys who build these race cars and if they'd give it a go or not. We know those who have, those who want to, and those who are on the fence.

And as a side note, I'd hope that this thread doesn't degenerate into the other TUSCC threads where people continue to whine about the same points over and over again. Discussion about issues is fine, and discussion about how things can be better is great. But if we all go down the road of complaining about the same things and turning the thread into a pool of negativity and people slagging on each other, I don't wanna go there.

At least one thread has already been temporarily closed (probably until the Sebring test), and all of this because people who don't agree with each other attack each other instead of the content of posts, and attacking that IMO is taking things too far, especially when facts can back up one's stance instead of acting out of emotion instead of a balance of emotion and logic.

If people start winging again, I'll know what I'll be thinking: "wake me up when the WEC season starts", and if things are this bad on that side of our world, then I know for sure what I'll be doing.

If I sound like I'm trying to do a mod's job, I apologize if I cause offense, but we shouldn't have to have mods constantly remind us what'll fly here and what won't/shouldn't, and like them, my patience is running thin, and the window of what I'll willingly tolerate is growing narrower.

[Breitling24]

I wouldn't mind seeing TUSC morph into an all GT series, with two classes: a more open rule book (like GTLM), attractive to factory and better privateer teams; and a "universal rule book" based GT3 pro-am class.

Porsche, Bentley, MB, Nissan, BMW, MacLaren, Ferrrari, et al, being able to supply cars to both classes.

[The Badger]

Id love to see the Marcos being represented on a more international series . That thing is a real crowd pleaser .

[Ephaeton]

So what cars would I like in TUSC?

Obvious. Prototypes of the present and past. The top 10 prototypes of each of the past 5, 6 decades. Throw in some 80s F1 cars. And let's get rid of these ridiculous GT cars, you can race those on your local highway (against the cops; where winning truly gives you a reward).

[The Badger]