IMSA TUSC 2015 Entries, Schedule, and Rumors

[Deleted]

You know many moons ago I was watching FIA GT at Spa and my dad came to the room just as they were doing pit stops. He asked why there were only two of them doing the tires and then filling up tank, 'because they're not in any hurry as it's 24 hour race or something?" His only knowledge of motorsports was limited to F1, WRC and MotoGP after all (they're the only ones covered here) so it was reasonable question. I said it's safer and brings up strategy aspect for tires. And he nodded "that makes sense".

I don't think one realizes how good system it is until it's seen. With Grand-Am people, they probably know it all too well, but as with many things they think we have short attention span and need constant 'entertainment'

[seanyb505]

Originally Posted by Chiana

... they think we have short attention span and need constant 'entertainment'

Check out the comments on the S365 article about the petition. It's rife with people who believe a long pit stop is just an excuse to have a poorly practiced team that needs longer time to complete the same tasks. Or that there is less skill required because there's only one lug instead of five.

It sounds like efforts to deflect from desires to see pit crew running around frantically to contribute to the entertainment factor. Surely if someone is running, it's edge of the seat, high drama type stuff.

I won't hide, I think the ACO type stops give an advantage to a better package. It's a better solution for a modern race car, let it take advantage of it's strengths.

[Deleted]

That attitude reminds me of these
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v93Jh6JNBng
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXeA0Mqfw70

In sprint racing like F1 and whatever fast pitstops are perfectly logical, here no...

[Gulf]

The nascar mimicking isn't going to end until the series has new owners or fails.

[Simmi]

Originally Posted by seanyb505

Check out the comments on the S365 article about the petition. It's rife with people who believe a long pit stop is just an excuse to have a poorly practiced team that needs longer time to complete the same tasks.

Judging by some of the reaction on Twitter some of the drivers think this too. Some guys staunchly in favour of a change - some guys like Sean Rayhall are against it.

[carbsmith]

It's super frustrating when the separate tire changes are actually more competitive and require more athleticism and practice than casually changing tires while waiting for the fixed rate fueling.

Honestly come on
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQVLeO0hYIk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBzrhVHlgu8

Corvette Racing does tires in 10 seconds, Doran took what, roughly a year? What was exciting about that?

[Maelochs]

"It's rife with people who believe a long pit stop is just an excuse to have a poorly practiced team that needs longer time to complete the same tasks."

Then those people are idiots.

The ALMS style pit stop just spreads out the tasks—completing each individual task in not harder or easier, and the total time it takes to complete each task still determines how long a stop lasts.

Seriously, those people are stupid. Filling a tank takes as long as it takes—miss the buckeye, it takes longer. Changing tires takes as long as it takes—drop a nut, or hit a stuck nut, it takes longer. Do either job sloppily, it takes longer—and the other guy gets out of the pits ahead of you, same as now.

The Overall stop is longer because each thing: fueling and tire change—is done sequentially, not consecutively, but the time it takes to do each job still determines who leaves first. There is no "extra time" to do a job badly. Where is this cushion for ill-trained pit crews coming from?

Can these people seriously not think at all?

(Well, often I cannot, so I should apologize in advance for my harshness. But really, where is the extra cushion of time for sloppy teams coming from? I don't get it.)

[Matt]

If they return to ACO style pitstops, I hope they'd dont show full stops from cars.

That was one thing I hated about the ALMS coverage, they'd show a full pitstop from a team/s instead of on track racing.

[fieldodreams79]

I started to sign the petition but got to the point of giving out the home address and I prefer not to do that. I am totally in favor of the ACO style pitstops and am all for keeping rules between series as similar as possible. Its frustrating to see this group attempt to be different seemingly for the sake of being different. Commonality between American sportscar series and European sportscar series makes it much easier for some interaction between the two instead the thumbing of noses.

With that said, watching a guy dressed like the Stig wearing an apron fueling a car with a cameraman doing a high \ low thing with the camera as he walks around the car and nothing else is happening isn't very interesting to me. I don't watch motorracing for pitstops. Its certainly an integral part of it, but its not going to be an attraction or a deterrent for me what ever they choose to do or not do.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Judging by some of the reaction on Twitter some of the drivers think this too. Some guys staunchly in favour of a change - some guys like Sean Rayhall are against it.

Rayhall doesn't know better... Classic case of "nothing bad has ever happened, odds are it won't"

It's a bit like flying a helicopter. Not a matter of if you'll crash, it's when.

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by fieldodreams79

I started to sign the petition but got to the point of giving out the home address and I prefer not to do that. I am totally in favor of the ACO style pitstops and am all for keeping rules between series as similar as possible. Its frustrating to see this group attempt to be different seemingly for the sake of being different. Commonality between American sportscar series and European sportscar series makes it much easier for some interaction between the two instead the thumbing of noses.

With that said, watching a guy dressed like the Stig wearing an apron fueling a car with a cameraman doing a high \ low thing with the camera as he walks around the car and nothing else is happening isn't very interesting to me. I don't watch motorracing for pitstops. Its certainly an integral part of it, but its not going to be an attraction or a deterrent for me what ever they choose to do or not do.

You don't need to give up your home address....that's all optional.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Matt

If they return to ACO style pitstops, I hope they'd dont show full stops from cars.

Agreed to that as we want to see action on the field instead of the pits!

[chernaudi]

The big reason why the ACO style stops have tires and fuel separated, at least publicly, is safety; only the fueler is very close to the car in that situation, and at least he has a full-face helmet on (tire changers and driver assistant/misc. task guy have beefed up bicycle helmets and goggles designed to deal better with impacts as opposed to flash fires). We have to remember that there was a rash of pit fires in the FIA WSC in the mid-1980s and especially in Indy Car and F1 in the early to mid '90s (especially bad in Indy Car as methanol fuel burns nearly invisibly and though it can be put out with water--which doesn't work so well on gasoline or other petroleum fuels--it's pretty nasty stuff even without the fact that methanol fires are nearly invisible. Methanol and nitro-methane are pretty nasty stuff, and I know that from experience).

However, I believe that the reason why the ACO have stuck with it is pit strategy. At LM this year, the winning Audi repeatedly ran 4 stints at LM on tires with an average stint of about 13 laps--that's the best part of a 500 mile NASCAR race on a set of tires. 2011, they ran 55 laps on a set of tires over 5 stints, and they easily ran 4 or even 5 stints on tires in 2013.

I know that a lot of teams do complain about money, but how much does a set of Continental IMSA tires cost? Last I heard, a set of Goodyear NASCAR SC/XS/CWTS tires cost around $1500 USD a set, and that figure's a few years old.

If in a sprint race the teams were able to/encouraged to double stint tires, that's a cost savings. That's the best thing about the old Michelin LMPC tires--they weren't that great as racing tires (being basically shaved down DOT-legal high performance street tires as far as compound and basic construction), but they were cheap, and lasted forever without notable changes in performance, and with LMPC being a spec class, everyone was in the same boat.

But if teams ran more than one stint on a set of tires, not only can a team or series push a green initiative like what the WEC and especially Michelin are promoting in the WEC, but it will hopefully save teams some money, because even the spec Contis can't be cheap.

I'd also like to see that add to driver strategy, because usually if teams don't change tires, they don't change drivers. It'd also make driver strategy and allocation very important for strategy in the pro-am classes or teams in the professional classes with pro-am driver line ups. Do you get the am driver's time in early, or do you try and get the pro/pros to build up a lead and put the am in with orders to nurse the car home and don't take risks?

Those are the only things missing from TUSCC that I feel are easy to remedy--TUSCC won't ever be perfect in anyway, but when one considers how many compromises had to be made to make the "merger" work to some degree for the major parties, it was never destined to be that way, and won't be until a truly unified rules package for the P class goes into effect.

Pit strategy is almost tantamount to NASCAR's; four tires and fuel on 90% of pit stops. Also, I know that a full service stop to ACO/FIA rules takes forever, but that's why it's a strategy deal. Do you save time by not taking tires, or take tires, lose 8-12 seconds (2 wheel guns) or 20-25 seconds (1 wheel gun) and hope that fresh tires will make up the time?

I do think that the element of pit strategy can use some work, and if teams where encouraged to multi-stint tires or (as in the WEC effective for the '15 season) a limit on sets of tires that can be used willy-nilly during a race (with the exception of punctures or tire damage), that'd also help save some teams some money, too, because even spec tires can't be that cheap.

[fieldodreams79]

Originally Posted by MoMedic9019

You don't need to give up your home address....that's all optional.

Thanks. I'll look again. This an easily to be discouraged kind of week.

Originally Posted by chernaudi

The big reason why the ACO style stops have tires and fuel separated, at least publicly, is safety; only the fueler is very close to the car in that situation, and at least he has a full-face helmet on (tire changers and driver assistant/misc. task guy have beefed up bicycle helmets and goggles designed to deal better with impacts as opposed to flash fires). We have to remember that there was a rash of pit fires in the FIA WSC in the mid-1980s and especially in Indy Car and F1 in the early to mid '90s (especially bad in Indy Car as methanol fuel burns nearly invisibly and though it can be put out with water--which doesn't work so well on gasoline or other petroleum fuels--it's pretty nasty stuff even without the fact that methanol fires are nearly invisible. Methanol and nitro-methane are pretty nasty stuff, and I know that from experience).

However, I believe that the reason why the ACO have stuck with it is pit strategy. At LM this year, the winning Audi repeatedly ran 4 stints at LM on tires with an average stint of about 13 laps--that's the best part of a 500 mile NASCAR race on a set of tires. 2011, they ran 55 laps on a set of tires over 5 stints, and they easily ran 4 or even 5 stints on tires in 2013.

I know that a lot of teams do complain about money, but how much does a set of Continental IMSA tires cost? Last I heard, a set of Goodyear NASCAR SC/XS/CWTS tires cost around $1500 USD a set, and that figure's a few years old.

If in a sprint race the teams were able to/encouraged to double stint tires, that's a cost savings. That's the best thing about the old Michelin LMPC tires--they weren't that great as racing tires (being basically shaved down DOT-legal high performance street tires as far as compound and basic construction), but they were cheap, and lasted forever without notable changes in performance, and with LMPC being a spec class, everyone was in the same boat.

But if teams ran more than one stint on a set of tires, not only can a team or series push a green initiative like what the WEC and especially Michelin are promoting in the WEC, but it will hopefully save teams some money, because even the spec Contis can't be cheap.

I'd also like to see that add to driver strategy, because usually if teams don't change tires, they don't change drivers. It'd also make driver strategy and allocation very important for strategy in the pro-am classes or teams in the professional classes with pro-am driver line ups. Do you get the am driver's time in early, or do you try and get the pro/pros to build up a lead and put the am in with orders to nurse the car home and don't take risks?

Those are the only things missing from TUSCC that I feel are easy to remedy--TUSCC won't ever be perfect in anyway, but when one considers how many compromises had to be made to make the "merger" work to some degree for the major parties, it was never destined to be that way, and won't be until a truly unified rules package for the P class goes into effect.

Pit strategy is almost tantamount to NASCAR's; four tires and fuel on 90% of pit stops. Also, I know that a full service stop to ACO/FIA rules takes forever, but that's why it's a strategy deal. Do you save time by not taking tires, or take tires, lose 8-12 seconds (2 wheel guns) or 20-25 seconds (1 wheel gun) and hope that fresh tires will make up the time?

I do think that the element of pit strategy can use some work, and if teams where encouraged to multi-stint tires or (as in the WEC effective for the '15 season) a limit on sets of tires that can be used willy-nilly during a race (with the exception of punctures or tire damage), that'd also help save some teams some money, too, because even spec tires can't be that cheap.

Interesting point.

Wouldn't tires that last longer cost much more up front? Just throwing darts here, but fully agree with using a part, a product or a piece longer is certainly more sustainable and generally will cost less in the long run. I would like to see more stints on the same set of tires. I cannot recall exactly, but I don't recall seeing many double and triple stinting of tires at Daytona.

[Maelochs]

"Wouldn't tires that last longer cost much more up front?"

Teams showed at the 2015 Rolex that the current tires can be double-stinted. The only reason on one ever does is that there is no benefit if fuel and tires are done together---why risk losing even a fraction of a second per lap when there is zero gain. But some teams chose to double-stint during the cold of the night because t took so long for the Contis to get up to temp, and I guess wear was low enough on a cold track.

Thing is a tire doesn't need to b e built to be double-stinted. If it is a decent tire and conditions allow for it, any tire can do it.

Car characteristics probably have a lot more to do with double-stinting in series where it makes sense. For instance, in WEC not many P1 cars double-stined because (possibly because of enormous torque and hp with hybrid power) the tires didn't last--double-stinting cost more in the last five laps of a stint than was gained by not changing.

Shrt answer: No, tires would no t necessarily have to cost more.

[fieldodreams79]

Makes sense all around as double stinting under the ACO rules saves time in the pits while there is no savings under IMSA rules.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

I know that a lot of teams do complain about money, but how much does a set of Continental IMSA tires cost? Last I heard, a set of Goodyear NASCAR SC/XS/CWTS tires cost around $1500 USD a set, and that figure's a few years old.

I don't know what the Continentals cost, but you do bring up a good point. I believe the regulations state how many sets of tires a team will be allowed for a race weekend, and that seems to be plenty of sets as not to need to double stint them. But what if the number of sets decreased by 1 or 2, would that change the ability to single stint? Of course you could put on your conspiracy hat, and say Conti's deal with IMSA assures them X number tires sold each week, so teams are discouraged from double stinting to meet the contractual agreements.

[Coach Ep]

Sebring 12H provisional schedule released: http://host.w.imsa.com/sites/default...g%20012915.pdf

No TUSC on Wednesday, 4,5 hours practice (incl. 1,5h night practice) on Thu/Fri morning and 1,5 qualifying (equally split over the 4 classes) at the end of the afternoon on Fri.

Race starts at 10.45 am on Sat.

[Rodger Davies]

Originally Posted by joeb

Of course you could put on your conspiracy hat, and say Conti's deal with IMSA assures them X number tires sold each week, so teams are discouraged from double stinting to meet the contractual agreements.

I once asked a British GT team if they got much of a discount on tyres due to the series being sponsored by a tyre company and got laughed and and quickly corrected.

[Danske]

They use the "speedway" tire spec at Daytona, the one some have complained about for being rock hard, so one can't say that DPs could double-stint the regular spec tires from having done so at Daytona.

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

but how much does a set of Continental IMSA tires cost?

$2200

edit: Also, the limited time I was in the car before we blew up, were the 3rd and 4th stints on a single set of tires.

-mike

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Mike Hedlund

$2200

edit: Also, the limited time I was in the car before we blew up, were the 3rd and 4th stints on a single set of tires.

-mike

Interesting, so the tires can clearly last on a PC, any thoughts for the other classes tire degradation?

[Mike Hedlund]

Originally Posted by joeb

Interesting, so the tires can clearly last on a PC, any thoughts for the other classes tire degradation?

I'm not sure about the other classes. On the Rolex GT Ferrari in 2013 we were double stinting tires (same speedway compound as GTD uses now).

We were also driving around some issues with the car from the start of the race so our pace wasn't blistering, which was why we decided to run so many stints on the tires.

-mike

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by joeb

Interesting, so the tires can clearly last on a PC, any thoughts for the other classes tire degradation?

The Conti speedway tire is one step softer than granite...their plateau is pretty big prior to dropoff, to which I've heard isn't all that dramatic until the very end. I've not driven a set, but, I'm certain Mike will be able to chime in.

[Danske]

Although if IMSA were to give DPs a spec tire they could double stint, and the P2s a spec tire they couldn't, people would be crying for the UN to intervene in the crime against humanity, but the reverse situation would be not only acceptable but proper.